Gasoline VS. Diesel

[Smokewagun]

So, what are your thoughts on resale values of a Superduty gasser versus a diesel? Do any of you guys have any experience with their actual resale values? Or better yet, what are your thoughts?

Another poster asked if the diesel market had peaked. I'm not sure if the diesel market has peaked, but I'll bet it takes a turn in a different direction. I can’t believe this horsepower/torque war will go on much longer with the price of fuel versus gasoline, but I will say, I can’t find a gasser Superduty on the lot anywhere. I don’t know if that is because of them not being built, or they have sold as soon as they hit the lot. I agree with many that I would rather a higher MPG diesel over a horsepower king, but even for a high mileage guy like me, it is getting hard to get the Boss to justify the $5300 adder for a diesel option.

For many years I drove diesels for daily drivers. I chose them because I averaged high mileage and their resale was incredible over gassers. The last three diesels, I traded for an average of $5000 at one year with 50-60k on the ticker. Still, with very recent studying, I find the diesel returns more than I paid for it initially. Especially now, after these BS incentives late last year that blew all used vehicle values to !@#$. But, now, for a change – and only for a change, I went to an F-150. Although I love the truck, I still hang my head and cry when a whistling turbo goes by.

Although KBB may not be the Bible for used trade values, it has a basis for some basic computations. For example, a standard 5.4L gasser in an F-250 Crew Cab returns nothing at trade in one year (as it is the standard engine), where the V-10 returns $675, and the 6.0L returns $5700. Considering I usually pay invoice at worst, I return another $1212 on the diesel at trade time, when I only spent $4488 for the engine initially. Now, basing my calculations on my past 6.0L mileage and an average of 60k miles per year, a diesel uses 3,333 gallons of fuel @ 18mpg, which costs $2.55 a gallon, or $8500 in fuel a year. My current F-150 with a 5.4L averages 15mpg @ $2.33 a gallon, or $9,320 in fuel a year. The diesel still saves me $820 in fuel. So, now I’ve saved about $2,000 in fuel and the return on the diesel. If you want to compare apples to apples, and select a gasser Superduty instead of my F-150 above, the gas savings jumps from $820 to about $2,250 if the V-10 and 5.4L get 13mpg. We know the facts there are a little worse for most – of course most haven’t been getting 18 with their 6.0L’s as I have, either.

So, if I really want to pick pepper out of fly dung, I’ll add the $300 more it cost me to finance the diesel for the year, and the $215 more it costs to buy the extra oil and filters, and that still leaves me with about $1500 to the good over a gasser. I suppose I could throw in a fuel filter or two, but doing the maintenance myself, it gets down to peanuts.

Anyway, back on topic, I kind of prove above a diesel is still a little more cost effective, and in the last five diesels and 300k miles, I never added anything to the service records other than standard filters and lubricants. Not even tires were required with trading before 60k. So, my maintenance really hasn’t exceeded what it costs to operate an F-150, other than the oil & filters. Now, it boils down to the resale value…

With the used vehicle market in the crapper, would it be better to buy a new diesel and drive it to 90k, 150k, or 180k, or trade (sell) them off every 60k? All I hear is how much it cost to operate a diesel and maintain it that I think I am missing something. My dad drives 65k a year and with the past three diesels hitting 140k and 190k, he still only had to put brakes, shocks, and tires on – no other service work other than general maintenance – which all engines require. What do you all experience? I would believe a good diesel truck with high mileage, but maintained, would net a good return over its gasser counterpart, wouldn’t you? I can’t even find a local dealer that wants any part of a gasser Crew Cab (Superduty) – used or new. I would think with the difference in gas and diesel prices, they would take on a few new and used gassers. So all you guys that say you are thinking about gassers, are you looking at something other than a Superduty, because the 150’s sure aren’t a good comparison to a Superduty, and their resale is worse right now anyway.

[gregrob]

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So, what are your thoughts on resale values of a Superduty gasser versus a diesel? Do any of you guys have any experience with their actual resale values?

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Diesel will win in that category every single time [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img]

[JustinWhaley]

Why does this always come up, It all depends on what your planning on doing. If your going to be towing a diesel is the way to go. But if not then a gasser is probably the choice.

[SLE]

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Why does this always come up, It all depends on what your planning on doing. If your going to be towing a diesel is the way to go. But if not then a gasser is probably the choice.

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This isn't the case at all. A V10 with 4.30s makes a pretty respectable towing maching and the 5.4 isn't a monster but does fine with a 5k-7k lbs of trailor in tow. The diesel may turn better results with higher mileage and towing heavy all the time. although maybe you tow reguarly but only put on say 6-10k per year, I'd say buy a V10 and skip the maintenence, noise, smell and the other negitives of the diesel. What it usually comes down to is what a person wants, buy what you want other wise you won't be happy!! A person that likes gassers might buy a diesel because some sales man talked him into it and next thing you know he's trading it in for a gasser, it goes the other way to!! I've seen it go both ways. personally My V10 makes good sence for me. the guy that started this thats putting on a pile of miles per year should probably stay with the diesel although I would personally run them into the high 100k mile mark before trading, just my opinion!

[SLE]

I just reread the thread, good lord 60k in a year, thats unbelievable!!! Do you shut that thing off, lol! Just a curious question, wouldn't a nice lincoln LS or something actually be cheaper and nicer drving than a big 8000lb oil burner?? Do you tow most of that 50-60k a year or is it mostly emty Hwy miles? on the other hand since its the company footin the bill why not!!

[F350Heavy]

Most guys buy a diesel because they like to hear the clatter when it idles. But a few actually buy them because they pull heavy loads that really need the extra torque that a V-10 can't deliver. I can say from experience that I wouldn't want to go over my 20k combined weight when I am traveling in the mountains out west. But the V-10 works great for me with the 6-spd and 4.88 axle. And it was really inexpensive compared to a diesel which at that time also required the TorkShift option.
Why do so many people drive those stupid cross-over SUV's? They don't have any real off-road capability and they just basically waste gas. But folks really like them, bless their hearts, and it's still a free country. It's the same kind of deal with gas versus diesel. The average clod can't "justify" a diesel but if he can spring for a few extra dollars he can get one just because he likes it.

[444-4D]

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he can get one just because he likes it.

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Yep, thats one reason own one. The other reason is because it will tow better. Owning a diesel will cost more. My towing need no longer exist. Although I do like diesels, if I were buying a new truck today I would probably get a gas engine.

[camperguy]

I'm curious like SLE? By my math you would have to drive more than 3 hours a day at 50 MPH average 365 days a year to get something like the 60K miles you drive? Talk about TB.

[Smokewagun]

Well, I was looking at my current figures this weekend to see where I was headed, and now that we use my wifes car a little more (it's nice to drive it for a change after spending the day in the truck) I am a little closer to 50,000 for miles on just the truck. Depending on how the jobs are going, I can see close to 400 miles a week just going to my projects and meetings, and then the lovely 600 miles a week just to get to the office. So, I guess that makes it 1,000 miles each week, not including vacations and personal trips each week.

I go through a lot of vehicles, so right now, I'm looking at the best way to save the company some money, and do myself some good in the long run. With current deappreciations of cars and trucks, I don't know if it's better to go diesel again and just run it for a few years, or go gas. At least the diesel will give me two years of warranty.

[datz510]

A V10 will tow nicely until you get up into the higher altitudes. if you are going to tow through mountainous terrain, get a turbo diesel. The turbo makes all the difference and helps regain power that would otherwise be lost with the thinner air at higher elevation.

As far as resale, the diesels are still going for a lot more here in Arizona.. but whether gas or diesel powerplant, used 3/4 ton Fords are hard to find in this area for some reason right now. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] There are only 5 listed on traderonline.com right now within 200 miles of phoenix, az!

[robsd]

After reading all that.. I uh, well, uh....

What was the question? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] Was that from a Ford brochure?

[F350Heavy]

I have found that fuel injection and modern engine controllers do a great job of masking the loss of power in non-turbo gassers at high altitude. And with my 6-spd I am usually only in 3rd or 4th gear even on Colorado mountain passes when loaded with the camper and Jeep. So I still have a lot of gears left to play with if I have to pass a truck or something.
But with my old diesel I noticed that at high elevations my exhaust temp would climb way up unless I backed my foot out of the accelerator. Banks recommended keeping the temp down to 1150 deg and I tried to never let it get over 1200 even for short bursts but it would climb fast and sometimes would be going through 1300 before I would notice the gage and take my foot out of it.
Maybe it had something to do with the old 7.3 IDI engine and the fact that the turbo was an aftermarket add-on but the end result was that I had very little more power than a gasser at high elevations since I couldn't use it without risking engine damage.

[Smokewagun]

Robsd,

You guessed it. Right out of a Ford brochure. I reread it and see that I was all over the board. Sorry.

I'm trying to find out if members here have actually found that a diesel is a better way to go with high mileage drivers over a gas engine. I calculate that a diesel still returns more than a gas engine with high mileage in the first year, but still, no one can verify if a diesel truck (compared to an identical truck with a gas engine) will be worth more than the amount the diesel option returns on trade or resale. In other words, has anybody experienced first hand if dealers are offering more for diesel trucks on trade than the diesel option adds to the value? I see KBB adds about $5700 over the value of a standard 5.4L V-8, but the diesel option only cost $5100 MSRP. The $600 difference probably isn't money thrown at the vehicle because it is more "sought after", is it? The V-10 returns more than paid for it, too, according to KBB. I just want to prove to the Boss that a diesel may be the way to go again due to my high mileage driving, but the difference in fuel costs (not to mention the possibility of what the difference might grow to in the future with ULSD) might make that hard to do.

I'd like to say (with the data to prove it): "Yes, Boss, you may spend $5300 for the diesel option, but it returns $600 more than you paid for it in the first place according to KBB, the fuel economy still returns you $1500 even though the fuel price is $0.30 more a gallon than gas, and diesels are so much more sought after that dealers are stepping up to the plate and giving an extra $2000 over KBB prices just because the supply is less than the demand". This used to be easy, and we commonly traded each year (for the past four) for roughly $5000, but these stupid dealer incentives drove used values so far down, it has almost doubled.

[robsd]

Smoke I was just messing with you. I hope the diesels return more because they cost more up front. An FX35 should return more than a Murado. But as someone mentioned you are putting a ton of miles on your truck and that will skew the numbers in an unrealistic mannor. Not a real out of sample test. I only put 12k on mine so your numbers look 5 times higher. $100 not as bad as $500. If your numbers work out then stick with them. By trading you are commited to making some large truck payments as well. I haven't made a truck payment in almost 2 years. Last time I filled up was about 3 weeks ago, and I still have 1/4 tank left.

But as some diesel owners have posted, it does cost more to own a diesel.

Good Luck

[Smokewagun]

No problem, robsd. I guess it just boils down to me being one of those guys who has to "justify the need for a diesel" when I really don't need one. I think that has been posted a few times by some flamers when the old gas versus diesel discussion comes up. I really like the power, response, economy, etc. of a diesel. I just can't get used to this damn F-150. It's nice and quiet (if you like that thing), rides perfect, and looks good, but it is small. The bed is small, and at 6'-5", my head hits the roof, the back of the B-pillar is even with my nose, and I don't have enough shoulder room because my left shoulder hits the B-pillar. I thought I could hack it for a while, but it just doesn't cut it. I, therefore, would like to go back to a Superduty. I want to make the change before the 2007's come out, and have just found that the last date my dealer will submit an order on a 2006 is March 1st. The rush is on. If the boss will allow the change to a F-250 gasser, my mileage will drop. I really don't want a 5.4L gasser in a crew cab because I think the weight of the truck will make it a dog, and my dealer really doesn't want to sell me one because he knows I'll be dissatisfied. Then, the V-10 is a gas hog, and my dealer really won't sell me one because he has used ones on the lot he can't give away. So, that pushes me to a diesel, which I need to justify the expense to the boss, which may be me committing to running it for 3-4 years. So far, the only leg up is a bit of fuel savings (if fuels stays a relatively constant $0.20 cost more than gas), and that we can drive a diesel under warranty for 100k if the used vehicle market continues to drop. Otherwise, if I have to stay in the 1/2 ton market, I am going to have to look at another brand because of interior room the F-150 doesn't have. And, I am a die-hard Oval man. DARN! It may be a company car, and a personal truck (diesel) will be required, instead.