Anyone know where I can find horsepower and torque curves for a 2000 V-10? The sales brochure I picked up in the showroom only has peak numbers. Thanks!
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'00 F250 CC SWB 4x2 XLT V-10 Auto 3.73LS Silver/Graphite
I cant tell you where to find curves on the factory rated numbers(flywheel) but what I can do if you're interested is e-mail you the rear wheel hp&tq data from my '00 V10 in bone stock trim. Let me know. Condsider yourself warned though, they aren't what one may expect. I don't mean that in a good way either!!
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Silver '00 Supercab F250XLT SWB 2wd w/ Vortech Supercharged V10, auto, 4.30ls, JBA headers, MagnaFlow stainless catback w/ 4" tailpipe. A-pillar triple guage mount w/ Autometer Ultralite Boost, Fuel Pressure, & 2 channel intake air temp for before and after the intercooler. Ridin' on 16.5x9.75 Centerline Polaris'and 35x12.5x16.5 BFG Mud TA's with a Fabtech 6" suspension lift and dual 2 1/2" SwayAway Race Runner shocks at each corner. VSE Raptor security system. Excusion color matched door handles.
Is it true? Is the end of flutter near?
"Weighs a ton and built to run."
[This message has been edited by N2BOOST (edited 11-01-2000).]
n2boost,
I'd like to see those dyno sheets before and after the supercharger if you have them. I wouldn't be surprised to see 75 or more horsepower lost at the rear wheel. Is that about what you saw?
How long have you had the Vortech on? I was considering the Kenne Bell that recently became available for the V10, but a friend of mine has one on his Cobra, and he's having a big detonation problem, and having to spend tons of money upgrading the fuel system.
Also, did you notice any low end torque loss after the JBA headers, or did you do that at the same time as the blower?
Off-Road magazine has an article about installing a Kenne Bell supercharger on a V-10. It has before/after horsepower and torque charts. I'll scan them tonight and post them.
crewzer, about the figures.. and i absolutely
don't mean any disrespect, but i think a few
are off--assuming that the torque is correct,
at 1000 rpms, the hp should be 67 and at 5000
rpms, the hp should be 286 ..
were these figures printed as such or from a
graph?
n2boost: just curious, how'd you keep it in
3rd gear at full throttle without having it
downshift? or did you measure it after the
upshift to 3rd, which would be in the upper
half of the rpms? i'm not so familiar with
dyno measuring.. or is it possible to take
into account the gear ratios if it's not 1:1?
The numbers are from the graph printed inside the fold-out brochure (no page number)for the Y2K model year. It's a small graph, but I think I read the data correctly.
The graph on page 27 of the 1999 brochure does indicate lower numbers...
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crewzer -- Y2K F250 SD 4X2 CC SB XLT 5.4LV8 AT 4.10LS
Hey guys. Sorry for the delay. Let me see if I can break this down and answer everybody's questions in one shot.
For those of you who have ever checked my profile, you already know that I work for Vortech Eng., Inc. I got my truck brand new in Dec. of 99 with the idea that we could develop a supercharger kit for it. I got the go ahead from the powers that be and started to R&D the system. We use an eddy current style Mustang brand chassis dyno here. These are a little different than the ever so popular Dynojets in the respect that you can actually load the vehicle and get steady state info at various rpms. It's the best setup as far as tuning is concerned. Because the Mustang loads the truck, or any vehicle for that matter it produces numbers that are approx. 50-60hp less than a Dynojet. The dynojet is merely an accelerometer. You have to put in vehicle weight, tire size, etc. etc. and it just calculates hp from a speed based table. I believe wawii had his run on the Dynojet brand so my numbers aren't going to exactly jive with his.
With that being said, we dynoed my truck for the first time at about 7500mi in 100% bone stock trim. The most we saw out of it after abbout 30 pulls was 209.9 peak horsepower at 4000rpm and 277 peak torque at 3750. All in all it varied between 20-30hp depending on the ambient conditions as well coolant and oil temp. We could not run it 3rd gear due to the fact that the truck would want to downshift back to second becuase of the amount of load being put on it relative to throttle position and rpm. Therefore all runs were made in 2nd gear. To assure that wasn't going to skew the final results too much we check with some of our powertrain connections at Ford. The torque multiplication between 2nd and 3rd gear doesn't change a whole lot (according to the Ford engineers) so the numbers are pretty accurate. Had we been able to acheive a true 1:1 drive ratio, the numbers would have been even better. I can confirm for anybody that has heard the rumor that the engine begins to make more power after 10,000 mi that this rumor is not true. At least not on my truck. We have dynoed this thing probably over 100 times covering a mileage span from 7500 to 20,000. Needless to say I was quite dissappointed with the results since I was using the standard 15% drivetrain calculation for the lost horespower and torque. If you do the math on the the advertised v. achieved power ratings, it comes it at 47-48% drivetrain loss. Soooooooo, again I hopped on the phone with my Advanced Powertrain buddies over at ford to get their opinion on the whole deal. They concured that the power loss on the Superduties is significant as a result of the very large torque convertor, the 4R100 itself (very ineffecient) as well as the two piece driveshaft. They quoted approx. 35-40%. That made me feel much better cuz I knew it definitely didn't feel like only 200 or so hp. I guess mine could've been down on power from the factory....who knows. I need to get another bone stock one in here to compare with.
After we installed and extensively tuned for the supercharger, it made a peak 314.9hp @ 5250 rpm and 362.5tq @ 4250. That's 50% increase in power from the S/C alone. Those numbers are quite impressive as far as justifying the performance of our superchargers. With the supercharger, this thing is a blast to drive. What a ton of fun. It fries the tires from a stop and the top end pull is mind blowing (as is charateristic of a centrifugal s/c). If you look at the dyno graph, you can see why. All of this is with a pulley set to make 8psi on a stock truck. I have since installed the headers and exhaust listed in my profile and haven't made a complete dyno pull.The one we made had to be aborted due to a slight oil leak (slight oversight on my part )But the pull we were on had already exceeded 330 rwhp. I can say that with the addition of the free flowing exhaust, the performance picked up considerably (as is very common with forced induction application). That's the motor's way of saying "Thanks for letting me breathe". A forced induction app. will normally pick up 20-30hp more with a good free-flowing exhaust system. It picked up good power everywhere. It's hard to notice any significant loss in low speed torque because the S/C is adding so much. It would be impossible for me to give you guys an unbiased opinion because of my affiliation with Vortech but you know that I usually don't come on here and spout all kinds of Vortech propaganda. I think every one of you would be thouroughly impressed with the performance of this truck. I am currently in the process of adding a factory PSD air/air intercooler to do a back to back real world daily driver comparison with our air/water charge cooler. Gonna try and see if I can't put some of these huge air/air v.air/water cooler arguements to rest. Ultimately, I would like to see about 4-450rwhp and 450-500rwtq. I will end up putting a throttle body, aftermarket MAF as well as make some fuel system upgrades(larger injectors) and fine tune the computer program some more. Those of you comparing my graphs with that of the Kenne Bell posted above need to keep in mind what I told you about the Mustang dyno v. the Dynojet. That Excursion was run on a Dynojet. Detonation is not even an issue with our system because 1)centrifugal S/C generate far less heat than screw/roots types (that =more HP per psi of boost) 2)they take less power to drive and 3)they don't introduce too much boost too low in the RPM band (where the factory computer is adding a ton of igniton timing. Too much timing + too much boost = uh ohhh).
Well there it is guys. Hope this helped all who were interested. If I were any good at HTML, I would post the graphs right here for all to see. But since I can't, just shoot me an e-mail and I will send the files to you guys. I scanned them and then set them up as .jpg images. Maybe one of you craftier types can get them posted on the site.
There are three graphs, 1)stock, naturally aspirated 2)stock, supercharged. The 3rd is a graph of one layed over the other for direct comparison. Take care guys.
Ricky B.
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Silver '00 Supercab F250XLT SWB 2wd w/ Vortech Supercharged V10, auto, 4.30ls, JBA headers, MagnaFlow stainless catback w/ 4" tailpipe. A-pillar triple guage mount w/ Autometer Ultralite Boost, Fuel Pressure, & 2 channel intake air temp for before and after the intercooler. Ridin' on 16.5x9.75 Centerline Polaris'and 35x12.5x16.5 BFG Mud TA's with a Fabtech 6" suspension lift and dual 2 1/2" SwayAway Race Runner shocks at each corner. VSE Raptor security system. Excusion color matched door handles.
Is it true? Is the end of flutter near?
"Weighs a ton and built to run."
[This message has been edited by N2BOOST (edited 11-02-2000).]
Ricky,
Got your email, thanks! I don't know how to post pictures so I hope someone else will. You've done great things with your V-10. I'll probably leave mine stock. It's in such a different league from the tired 302 I was driving that I really don't feel the driveline losses.
Sport
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'00 F250 CC SWB 4x2 XLT V-10 Auto 3.73LS Silver/Graphite
I had the same 3rd gear problem with my Auto, and my best runs are also in 2nd gear. My Stock truck hit a peek of 235 Hp @ 4100 RPM and 331 ft.lbs. @ 3200 RPM. With the abddition of the SuperChip only it then hit 244 HP @ 4200 RPM and 334 ft.lbs. @ 3400 RPM. The Chip gave me an average of 4.5% more HP and 3.7% more TQ.
It looked like in 2nd gear I had a 24% loss of HP and a 22% loss of TQ. When I did the eqtractions for the 3rd gear runs it looked like I should of hit a peek of 245 HP or a loss of 21% and a peek of 335 ft.lbs. or a 21%.
It looks like your comment on the difference of the Dyno's is a little high with our difference at about 25 HP and 54 ft.lbs. But since we were both in 2nd gear it's hard to be accurate. Sure wish we could do rear 3rd gear runs with the Auto's.
Your Vortech numbers look GREAT! How is the truck doing on fuel after the installation? So for with the Chip and Headers I'm up an average of 8% in MPG's.
Nothing against the Vortech, but the though of a big Eaton SuperCharger sure has be drooling. I've seen the Paxton the Ford has played with and it's OK.
Keep up the great work! If you ever make to South East MI drop me a line.
wawii,
The difference probably varies from dyno to dyno. The numbers that I quoted are pretty much standard industry wide.
You've seen the Paxton truck that Ford is fooling with running around out there? Keep your eyes peeled for the white supercab 4X4 with the air/water cooled 12psi Vortech on it. It belongs to one of the advanced powertrain engineers. It's making horsepower approaching 500 with simple bolt on parts. It runs the quarter in the mid 13's at just over 100mph. It's awesome. He originally told me that they got another 70+ horsepower just from fine tuning the stock ECM program alone. Take care.
added on edit: The fuel mileage for the most part is about the same under disciplined driving conditions. By beating on it pretty hard, I have seen as much as 75-100mi per tank loss. On my truck that equals approx. 3mpg loss. Keep in mind, that's pretty much driving the hell out of it and keeping the boost gauge at it's peak.
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Silver '00 Supercab F250XLT SWB 2wd w/ Vortech Supercharged V10, auto, 4.30ls, JBA headers, MagnaFlow stainless catback w/ 4" tailpipe. A-pillar triple guage mount w/ Autometer Ultralite Boost, Fuel Pressure, & 2 channel intake air temp for before and after the intercooler. Ridin' on 16.5x9.75 Centerline Polaris'and 35x12.5x16.5 BFG Mud TA's with a Fabtech 6" suspension lift and dual 2 1/2" SwayAway Race Runner shocks at each corner. VSE Raptor security system. Excusion color matched door handles.
Is it true? Is the end of flutter near?
"Weighs a ton and built to run."
[This message has been edited by N2BOOST (edited 11-06-2000).]
)But the pull we were on had already exceeded 330 rwhp. I can say that with the addition of the free flowing exhaust, the performance picked up considerably (as is very common with forced induction application). That's the motor's way of saying "Thanks for letting me breathe". A forced induction app. will normally pick up 20-30hp more with a good free-flowing exhaust system. It picked up good power everywhere. It's hard to notice any significant loss in low speed torque because the S/C is adding so much. It would be impossible for me to give you guys an unbiased opinion because of my affiliation with Vortech but you know that I usually don't come on here and spout all kinds of Vortech propaganda. I think every one of you would be thouroughly impressed with the performance of this truck. I am currently in the process of adding a factory PSD air/air intercooler to do a back to back real world daily driver comparison with our air/water charge cooler. Gonna try and see if I can't put some of these huge air/air v.air/water cooler arguements to rest. Ultimately, I would like to see about 4-450rwhp and 450-500rwtq. I will end up putting a throttle body, aftermarket MAF as well as make some fuel system upgrades(larger injectors) and fine tune the computer program some more. Those of you comparing my graphs with that of the Kenne Bell posted above need to keep in mind what I told you about the Mustang dyno v. the Dynojet. That Excursion was run on a Dynojet. Detonation is not even an issue with our system because 1)centrifugal S/C generate far less heat than screw/roots types (that =more HP per psi of boost) 2)they take less power to drive and 3)they don't introduce too much boost too low in the RPM band (where the factory computer is adding a ton of igniton timing. Too much timing + too much boost = uh ohhh).
Linear Mode
