I am going to have to make my final decision in the following months with regard to the v10 or 6.0. My sole criteria that I need to have a cc and it must be able to last at least 10 years, and still pull reasonably strong. I only drive about 15-20k/year. Max RV weight will be aroung 8000lb. Any thought would be appreciated.
You need it to last 150-200k miles; get the diesel. The V10 might last that long, but the 6.0 (assuming you don't get a bad one) WILL last that long. And you'll save a lot in fuel costs as well.
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Current vehicles
'83 Mercedes 300D Turbo-Diesel-the U 505 299,000 miles
'77 Mercedes 240D 4sp stick 62 hp daily driver 220,000 miles
What year did they come out with the v10? Anybody still have the original? I thought I read they were going to be adding more valves in the near future, anyone else hear that?
I wouldn't loose any sleep worrying about this. I'd expect 200,000 miles out of ANY engine with proper maintenance. That's big blocks, small blocks, 4-bangers, or diesel. If you ask me the diesels don't really "shine" until you start asking for more than 300,000 miles.....a lot more.
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'00 F250 CC SWB 4x2 XLT V-10 Auto 3.73LS Silver/Graphite
Well you know around here the diesel guys say a gas motor is about shot at 100k. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I tend to differ and agree with the previous poster regarding PM. Keep all the inputs clean and you'll get plenty of mileage. You'll probably be replacing a tranny first. I did. Last truck was a 150 with a 5.8. 180k and 11 years later I had a new tranny. Also had to replace the water pump.
Hey Shaffer!! How many miles on your '86 Lincoln? Better classify that anything diesel comment....I think VW still makes a diesel. Or I'm sure you can still find a Golf around somewhere. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
How much data is available to support an estimation on which engine might best last the 10 year/200,000 mile longevity goal that you have?
The Triton V10 was introduced to market six (6) years ago, in the late summer of 1996 for the 1997 model year E-350 vans, cutaways, and F-53 motorhome chassis. That is 6 years of on-road experience.
The 6.0 liter diesel, on the other hand, in form that makes it uniquely Ford's iteration, has been on the market for 6 months. A perusal of the 6.0 liter forums over this last six months may provide some insight into how things are going so far.
Are diesels inherently cheaper to operate than gas? Ask this to the poster today on the 7.3L forum who just spent $797.00 to have a fuel injector replaced at 109,000 miles. That, and a couple of CMP sensors over 10 years can quickly eat up any savings in fuel costs over the same period of time/miles. Ask how many V10 owners have had to replace a CMP sensor. Ask how many V10 owners have had to replace injectors, or have their motors withdrawn entirely from their truck just to fish out yet another broken piston cooling jet. Ask how many V10 owners had to pay an extra $4,000 premium for their engines, only to spend three times more on oil changes and fuel filter changes. For those reading that are unfamiliar with the mechanical features and differences between these engines, I can tell you that the V10 owner's answer to each of these questions will be a thankful and happy "none."
I think this oft-repeated notion that purchasing, maintaining, and operating a Ford 7.3 liter or 6.0 liter diesel engine might be "cheaper in the long run" than purchasing, maintaining, and operating a Ford V10 engine... has not borne itself out in the real world of private ownership of a light truck used as a recreational vehicle.
Let the fact that I own both a Ford diesel and a Ford V10 serve as evidence that I harbor no desire to publically "justify" my purchase decision as a recommendation for what is best for anyone else. In the past, it has appeared to me that a lot of commentary on the Ford gas versus diesel question has been more or less "self-justification" type argumentary. I am not suggesting that any of that has occurred in this thread, but be on the look out for it, as it is sure to come.
I like to point out the virtues of the Triton V10, since they are generally overlooked on a website with such names as "Ford-Diesel" and "TheDieselStop." This is only a natural byproduct of the membership demographic. I have yet to find a website that aggrandizes the V10 with such an emotional and cultlike following. I think this is in part due to the V10's ability to just quietly do it's job, with no fuss, no muss.
If you can't have both, the best way I have found to make a decision between the two is to thoroughly try before you buy. This means going way beyond the typical test drive offered by a salesperson on new inventory at the dealership. It means, believe it or not, test driving USED inventory... from the USED car lot section of your dealer, even when shopping for a NEW truck.
This is desireable for two reasons:
1. The dealer is far more likely to let you test drive a used vehicle on your own, for a much longer term, without worrying so much about you racking up miles on a "new" vehicle, which they like to deliver to high expectation customers with as few miles as possible. By simply leaving them the keys to your personal auto, and a copy of your driver's license, you might be able to keep their used truck overnight, cold starting it in the morning, taking a long trip to find a decent grade, etc.
2. The second reason to go for testing a USED vehicle similar to the one you wish to purchase is that it is a little like meeting your inlaws prior to marrying your spouse to be. Getting to know your future mother-in-law may provide clues as to how your future bride might look and behave when she gets older. Same for father-in-laws and husbands. This is a gross generaliztion of course, but the comparison is chosen for it's memorability. Testing a five year old engine might prove to be an informative harbinger for how your new engine might behave in five years, which is really what seems most important to you.
Naturally, with the new 6.0, this longevity testing won't be possible. But there are other ways to obtain a longer term test drive. RENT! Go to the rent-a-truck store that just adopted their new fleet of 2003 Ford 6.0 diesels... pay them their money and go haul a load! Offer to move a friend's belongings, or to haul a pallet of sod or a yard of gravel for a neighbor. You've been wanting him to clean up his yard anyway, so give him an incentive that he can't refuse! In the meantime, before you deliver that load of rock, haul it around for a few hours, feeling the throttle response, vibrations, noise, or whatever driveability issues are important to you.
Then do it all over again with a V10. Offer to do something for that same mother-in-law, or the neighbor across the street from the first neighbor, lest he think you are playing favorites!
Seriously, the longevity vs. cost equation on these motors is likely to be the same at the end of the 200,000 mile long day, all things considered, including faults, downtime, and even factoring in a swag coefficient for the unexpected!
It is a great and perfectly legitimate question to ask which motor will give you the most cost effective and reliable service. But in this case, the V10 has not proven itself to be unreliable over the last 6 years, and the 6.0 has not proven itself to be reliable over the last 6 months. Therefore, the age-old adage that diesels outlast gas does not appear to be applicable in this case. It would be unfair to compare the half-million mile MBTF of a Cummins ISC to a Chevrolet 454, and offer that as evidence that diesel motors outpower and outlast gas motors, even while both of these motors were offered in the same GVWR medium duty truck chassis.
No, this is a case of comparing the diesel and gas motors that Ford offers in their light duty pick-ups... and for that comparison, I would consider comfort and convenience on an equal plane with projected reliability and cost to operate. There does not seem to be enough data to support the rule of thumb that Ford's diesel options offer any appreciable advantages over their V10, on any of these counts, for the type of use that you indicated.
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Y2K W57 7.3L 4R100 MSOF (Manual Shift On Floor)
WOW [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] My hat's off to you Robyn, your thoughts on this subject not only reflect my own, but I am sure that there are many that appreciate comments with intelligence as you have stated.
What Robyn said [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
twinbulls
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1999.5 F-250 Lariat SD CC SRW LB Loaded V10 auto 4x2 K&N FIPK,Poweraid spacer,muffler deleted,custom seat covers,wood dash kit,tinted windows.BFGs 285s. A-Pillar gauges Tranny temp,oil pres and water temp.Hypertech PP 111 with themostat 160 deg.
ARE Custom Top W/ladder rack,Added a center seat/armrest,Clear corner lenses,TT mirrors, Rancho RS 9000X with incab remote, A work truck you can valet. NRA Life member. My Truck
Like Robyn, I too have both the PSD and Triton V10. I could not be happier with the performance of my V10. I used it to tow my 30' trailer without so much as a whimper. Like Robyn said, it just keeps doing it's job. As I got more involved in my trips to the desert, I found myself going deeper and deeper into the camping area where the sand starts to get soft. Bottom line, I needed/wanted a 4x4. Couple that with the fact that my company had just become an X plan customer and the fact that I lost my company car, I decided to buy a new an 03 4x4 PSD. I am happy with it as well.
I never did understand the 'my mpg is better than your mpg' argument that I read far too often on this site. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] I own both of these trucks because they serve a distinct purpose. I never in my wildest dream imagined that I would get 30 mpg. If I needed 30 mpg I would buy a Honda.
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2003 F350 XLT CC 4x4 PSD - My ride - Banks Monster Exhaust, SCMT, Autometer guages, 6" ProComp lift on dual Fox shocks in front single in rear with Fox steering stabilizer.
2003 F150 XLT SuperCrew 4x2 5.4 V8 - Wife's ride - Not sure if she'll let me modify this one yet or not.
Well put Robyn. Test drove a 6 liter Excursion and decided to get a second Excursion with a V10. A 4K rebate on top of A-plan also helped. I was also advised to wait on the 6 liter by many Ford techs. Our 2K Excursion has 60K miles without any problems. Ford has improved the ride in the 03, with the tires, shocks and rear sway bar.
Hey Shaffer!! How many miles on your '86 Lincoln? Better classify that anything diesel comment....I think VW still makes a diesel. Or I'm sure you can still find a Golf around somewhere. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Rob
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The Lincoln has 218k (I think [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]), but I believe it's enjoyed a much greater than normal life span. The reasons for this are the very short 3" stroke combined with the 3.08 rear and overdrive, and the diesel-like torque delivery. The short stroke keeps the piston speed lower for a given rpm than most other engines, while the gearing means it lives at 2000 rpm going 80 down the interstate. The torque curve being what it is on that engine, I rarely have to take it over 3000 and I've never had it over 4000.
As far as the diesel VW's, I'm somewhat considering a TDI Jetta as a commuter car/runabout after I graduate. Right now I can barely afford coffee. I don't know if I like the 55k mile timing belt changes, though. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bleh.gif[/img]
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Current vehicles
'83 Mercedes 300D Turbo-Diesel-the U 505 299,000 miles
'77 Mercedes 240D 4sp stick 62 hp daily driver 220,000 miles
Not bad for a gasser. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] You were supposed to say it's a doggie old gasser and you can't wait to give it up for a diesel. Plus for good measure you should have thrown in it has no power, gets poor gas mileage, the resale value will suck. But human nature stuck it's head in and you defended your gasser just like we do....because we all agree their not as bad as they seem. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img] And even the old 5.4 v8 in a cc 4x4 will haul 200# worth of kids just as well as a big 7.3 diesel. Plus you can hear them to boot.
But you'll have to educate me on the shorter stroke equals less piston speed. I'm still scratching my 43 yo teen dragging head on that one. Piston speed is relative to the crank speed. The piston on a 4" stroke travels at the same speed as a 3" stroke but has more to travel before heading back in the other direction. Which means that the 3" would fire more often and be able to rev faster(hence advantage to the small block street racers). And since it fires more often while revving quicker there is more load and wear on the engine. Sort of why a 2-stroke engine will not last as long as a 4-stroke engine but each has their place. I'm sure I'll be corrected and I'm cool with that but the main reason for going with a 428 when I built my old firebird was I got the bore of a 455 and the stroke of a 400.
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