I however was serious about the resale. The v-10's simply don't hold their resale like the PSD.
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Time to put the old wife to bed. Another old wives' tale, unless you choose to just forget the money originally paid for the diesel.
I ran (for the umpteenth time) the numbers for identical 2000 Lariats, CC 4x4 SB w/ 75k miles though Kelly Blue Book: one with a V10, one with a PSD. Figures are trade-in values as of 12/3/01 in the Denver region.
V10: $20705
PSD: $24405
Guess what? robsd's figure of the 'negotiated' $3700 is the exact difference! Home-run for robsd!
Actually, if the poor PSD owner paid list (!?) they would actually have LOST money over the V10 resale/trade-in (blasphemy on this site).
As a preemptive strike against the "oh yeah, well, wait until the mileage gets up there" contingent in the PSD peanut gallery I ran the following:
175,000 miles:
V10: 20205
PSD: 23905
Still a $3700 difference. Seems the market thinks the V10 is as durable as the PSD. What say you, the jury?
Even for the much maligned (and less powerful) 1999 V10 the difference between it and the PSD for '99 is $3570.
'99 Lariat
275,000 miles
V10: $18090
PSD: $21660
That can't be!!! The PSD is actually losing ground as the miles rack up!
Suggested New Slogan: "Give me facts or (else I'll) give me (my) opinion"
Well, I suppose I'll be banned as a heretic now that I have published that the emperor is buck naked.
Now for the coup' de gras' (homework):
"At $1.02 for 87 octane gas and Diesel at 1.29, how long will it take to recover the $4K cost of the motor?"
Nice knowin' y'all.
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2001 F251 SRW Lariat CC 156 4x4, V10, 4R100 Auto (#3!), 3.73 LS, ESOF, BU sensors
OffRoad, Camper Pkg. Born, KTP: 08-01-00, Delivered: 8-29-00
SCMT, Volant intake, Gibson stainless cat-back exhaust, PML ALu trans pan and diff cover, Snuglid, 285x75R Geolandar AT II+, Edelbrock IAS shocks.
I never intended to buy a diesel, but I had two friends who were feeding me the old resale value argument when I told them that I was ordering a V-10.
I went to a couple of websites (including kbb) and got very similar numbers. The return on investment on the V-10 was better than the V-8, and even to slightly better than that of the diesel on every one of the configurations that I tested.
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2002 F-250 CC 2WD Lariat V-10 SWB, Auto, 3.73LS. Red/parchment, captain's chairs, clearance lights, telescoping power mirrors, chrome tubular steps.
K&N, Line-X (gray, colormatched to railcaps)
Delivered 29 September 2001
Its a silly argument anyway, unless you love calculators and all...
The superdutys are nice trucks, the V10 and the PSD are good motors. If you like what you have and it works for you... end of discussion.
Never really could understand these "my Dad can beat up your Dad arguments."
[img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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'03 F250 (7.3) 4X4 Auto CC, Long Bed XLT. AIC, Camper Shell and Sirrus Radio - Most of the options. Purchased via the courtesy of the DSB
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by spoon:
Seems the market thinks the V10 is as durable as the PSD. What say you, the jury? <hr></blockquote>
My experience is that a diesel will hold up better/longer under hard use. Admittedly, I've never owned a Ford V10, but from what I've read, the new modular motors are not built as heavy as the old windsors.
Here's a question for you guys. Not really wanting to start a big argument, but just curious about the new V8s and V10s: Can ya'll burn regular gas when towing during hot weather? That was one thing I hated with my last trucks with 351 and 460. When towing during the Summer, I had to run premium to keep the pinging at bay. The 351, especially (with its higher compression ratio) would ping a lot (only with a heavy load), even burning premium! [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]
I finally got tired of listening to all that racket, so I bought a diesel. haha
I can't speak for all of the V-10's but here in the high altitude I run regular all summer with out a problem. I load up three ATV's on the truck and pull a camper. I don't think regular would work if I tried this at lower altitudes but it does work here where we live on a limited amount o2 any way.
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04/04 F350 Dually Lariate, 4x4, CC, LB, Auto, Firestone air bags, Bilstein shocks, custome on board air system, cat back 4" Aeroturbine muffler.
04/03 F350 Dually XLT, 4x4, CC, LB, Auto, Firestone air bags, Bilstein shocks, Three rear main seals, three times for no 4x4, to many other problems, Dealer got this peice of junk back in less than three months.
02, (Traded 12/01/03) F350SD,XLT, 4X4, CC, LB, PSD, Auto, Firestone air bags, Bilstein shocks Custome made ATV rack
spoon - outstanding job stating the facts! That is reality! The thought of spending seven times more money up front on the PSD to lose money at selling time, is hard to swallow for some. So they never do a little research on the re-sale value of their trucks. Instead, they spew forth more ignorance on a daily basis. I'm sick of hearing it. Thanks for setting the record straight!
[img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
A different view of Spoons numbers. As the miles rack up, the value of the truck and everything on it will go down. For instance, a truck with extremely high miles will be worth little no matter the engine. If a very ragged out old truck with a V10 is worth $5,000, don't expect the same tired old truck with a PSD to take $8700. If that were the case, the PSD priced truck would be 74% higher than the V10.
Given that the PSD only costs maybe 12% more than a similarly equipped V10 truck when new, the question is, which truck will hold its value better?
When new, a $30000 truck, when equiped with a PSD, will cost $3700 more than a V10 (assuming the V10 is free?). So look at the following figures:
New:
V10: 30000
PSD: 33700
delta 3700
3700/30000 = 12.3%
So PSD costs 12.3% more than V10 at 0 mi.
Now let's look at Spoons numbers:
At 75K:
V10: 20705
PSD: 24405
delta 3700
3700/20705 = 17.8%
So PSD is worth 17.8% more than V10 at 75K mi.
At 175K
V10: 20205
PSD: 23905
delta 3700
3700/20205 = 18.3%
So PSD is worth 18.3% more than V10 at 175K mi.
At 275K
V10: 18090
PSD: 21660
delta 3570
3570/18090 = 19.7%
So PSD is worth 19.7% more than V10 at 275K mi.
So yes, the $3700 PSD may not be worth $3700 forever and will depreciate as the miles rack up, Spoons numbers show that as the miles rack up, a PSD equipped truck does depreciate more slowly than does a similarly equipped V10 truck.
By 75K miles, the PSD truck, while costing only 12% more than a V10 truck is already worth 17% more, and it increases this lead as the miles are racked up.
In contrast to Spoon and others in this thread, I'll refrain from a bunch of smart alec comments and put downs in my post. Enjoy the truck you got. No need to get all wrapped around the axle.
[quote]Originally posted by MCU:
[QB]A different view of Spoons numbers. As the miles rack up, the value of the truck and everything on it will go down. For instance, a truck with extremely high miles will be worth little no matter the engine. If a very ragged out old truck with a V10 is worth $5,000, don't expect the same tired old truck with a PSD to take $8700. If that were the case, the PSD priced truck would be 74% higher than the V10.
Given that the PSD only costs maybe 12% more than a similarly equipped V10 truck when new, the question is, which truck will depreciate more quickly?
When new, a $30000 truck, when equiped with a PSD, will cost $3700 more than a V10 (assuming the V10 is free?). So look at the following figures:
So yes, the $3700 PSD may not be worth $3700 forever and will depreciate as the miles rack up, Spoons numbers show that as the miles rack up, a PSD equipped truck does depreciate more slowly than does a similarly equipped V10 truck.[QB]
Percentages are interesting. 50% of a dollar is still only .50 cents. I think if you look at the real dollar figures as originally posted, it is a lot closer than most here ever envisioned. Percentages only get farther apart as the dollar figures get smaller, and they also become less significant as your 35,000 truck is worth 5,000 or 6,000 when its on its last breath.
Please, lets not also start statistics now as we can REALLY get into playing with numbers. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Y2k F350, white with harvest gold trim,V10,4x4,Lariat,SC,Auto,Tow pkg,camper pkg,ESOF, so-called limited slip, off road,3.73,Rancho 9000 w/ in cab control, Ride Rite Air Bags,Long bed,Rickson 19.5" wheels, Michelin XDE-MS,Lance Camper, BugDeflector2, Stull Grill, KN., Flowmaster 50
Guys, I love numbers and analysis, BUT, the important thing is "what works best for you". Many of the folks who seem to argue the high mileage PSDs are worth more seem to be the same people who uptrade every couple years. So maybe it's there way to justify their purchase. I hang with a bunch of PSDers and take alot of good-natured ribbing. It's all in fun (I hope) and it doesn't change the fact that I love my SuperDuty pickup truck! Gas or diesel, they're big, fun, look-at-me trucks. If you want the PSD, go for it. If you want the gas, more power to you. Either way, it's a blast to drive.
Robb [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
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Robb Wing from Cincinnati,Ohio FOKISDCharter Member/Founding President
99.5 F250SD XLT,4X4,CC,SB,SRW,V10,Auto,3.73LS,ESOF,Deep Wedgewood Blue,Swiss Cab-high Cap,Pioneer DEH-P7300,Alpine Amps,Infinity Sub,Street Scene Grill Inserts,full-chrome grill,Fumoto,SPA Gauges,Rancho 9000s w/remote & stabilizer,Heated/Lighted TT mirrors, Jordan Ultima 2020,TYC Elegante Tail Lights,Great Covers Endura Seat Covers,Auto Lock Underseat Drawer,Hella Micro DE Fogs,Full Chrome Front Bumper,PML Diff Cover, JAD Solutions LED running lights below doors,18" Harley Wheels,keypad,chrome tow hooks,leather steering wheel, PF 2-piece Rotors and "Z" pads in front - PS Cryo and Hawk LTS in rear,BANKS Stinger Plus,Banks TransCommand,GMT Transmission My Pics
This whole argument is ridiculous. I was able to get about $6000 off sticker on my PSD equipped rig. So someone factor that one in. Why assume these retail numbers. Lets use a basis of something like real market value. The real market value of a diesel engine in a boat/truck/front end loader will be higher, the market has allowed it in the past and maybe in the future. The public is sold on diesel as a longevity investment.
Depending on your market area, and demand in that market is the real driver on what the truck will be worth.
But the PSD is clearly the better setup. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
My friend is a car dealer and at a dealer auction you'd be an idiot to pick up a V-10 with high miles for that kind of $$.
Both your figures are at least about $10,000 off.
Mileage does depreciate trucks but in a real world, the V-10@275,000mi= 4,000-7,000 bucks... depending on condition.
PSD would be in the range of 11,000-16,000 depending on condition. Not to mention it still has a good bit of life left.......
Wow 275,000 would be ALOT on a V-10...... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
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Gas engines suck!
180,000 miles of flawless Freightliner service to date....can't say the same about the CATERPILLAR!!--should have went with the ISC!
MY FIRST AND LAST CATERPILLAR MOTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
01' bussiness class
CAT 3126/330 eaton autoshift
13TLQ Renegade toterhome www.kibbi.com
WASTEGATED TURBOS SUCK!! I WANT V.A.T.N.!!
Then again.....who cares about #'s
If you got gas, you're kinda stuck with it..huh?
Has anyone brought up the amount of gas to diesel converts -VS- the diesel to gas converts??
I think that would say enough.....
C-mom flame me, what do ya' got??
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Gas engines suck!
180,000 miles of flawless Freightliner service to date....can't say the same about the CATERPILLAR!!--should have went with the ISC!
MY FIRST AND LAST CATERPILLAR MOTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
01' bussiness class
CAT 3126/330 eaton autoshift
13TLQ Renegade toterhome www.kibbi.com
WASTEGATED TURBOS SUCK!! I WANT V.A.T.N.!!
I don't know, post some statistics on gas people becoming diesel people.
All hearsay, lies, and trickery! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Seriously, the only people I know that have switched to diesel were those who haul their whole house with them 24/7, have diesel in their veins from a previous career or life, or who have been dupped by the "It gets 25 MPG, will last 500,000 miles, and will be worth more than it cost when they are done with it" argument.
Whatever you drive is fine by me, I for on am sure glad we have a choice though.
Didn't yall catch the post in the general section a few weeks back about the guy asking about buying a 99 psd with about 200k near the blue book value. Almost every reply said not to buy it. Hows that? One PSD owner said to offer them $10k. Hows that for resale? Plus as I've said before if you trade a PSD for a PSD you'll never recoup the resale advantage.
Also using phantom's numbers (??) the PSD would only have a 5.5% greater value than the v10. You must subtract the up front cost of the PSD.
C5Nassau, for comparison you must compare apples to apples. What about the v10 guy who got $6000 off sticker. Plus the $6000 was probably made up through a trade, finiancing, undercoating, spray in bed liner(what a markup!!), etc.
FL70CAT
275k is a lot for any truck. The only difference is the engine. Everything else wears out. Who cares if the engine is fine but everything else is worn out? BANG BANG!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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