I just returned from a 500 mile round trip to Wyoming (4200 ft. elev.) from my home (5800 ft. elev). We used a V10 and a PSD for the trip and the results were eye-opening.
Trucks: 2001 CC SB V10 (15000 miles), and a friend's 2001 CC LB PSD (7000 miles). Both have auto/3.73LS, both Lariat 4x4, both have Snuglids. The PSD is stone-stock, the V10 specs are in my signature.
Road: I-25, some rolling hills, mostly flat.
Towed: 2000 # single-axle camper (12" wheels) for the V10, 3300# (gross) boat on tandem-axle (15" wheels) trailer for the PSD.
Speed: We both used cruise, set at 75 mph for 90% of the trip.
Air Temps: 68-104 F. Unusual for WY, no wind to speak of. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
Load: about 300# ea. in the box.
Passengers: 2 for V10, 1 for PSD.
Fuel economy: 11.8 for the V10, 11.4 for the PSD.
I realize the PSD had a 50% greater towing weight, but after reading all the glowing reports of the PSD's fuel economy, I was surprised/pleased to find out in the real world, it is just about a wash. I'll keep my V10, thanks (and that $4500 PSD engine premium). [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
We are going to swap the towed trailers for an identical trip in August. I'll post those results when they are in.
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2001 F251 SRW Lariat CC 156 4x4, V10, 4R100 Auto (#3!), 3.73 LS, ESOF, BU sensors
OffRoad, Camper Pkg. Born, KTP: 08-01-00, Delivered: 8-29-00
SCMT, Volant intake, Gibson stainless cat-back exhaust, PML ALu trans pan and diff cover, Snuglid, 285x75R Geolandar AT II+, Edelbrock IAS shocks.
Spoon,
I hear what you are saying...but
Your 15K V10 is about broke in and the 7k PSD isn't. I have a co-worker here who has the exact same Platinum as mine with the exception of the PSD. We both tow about the same TT and have gone on three weekends together. We are still under 7K on the Odometer and bone stock. Unloaded he gets 3 more MPG than I. Loaded he gets 4-5 more MPG than I. Out here in cattle rancher country the prevailing motor is PSD and almost every contractor and rancher I talked to, before I decided on the V10, told me pulling torque and fuel effeciency were the reasons for the oil burner. Your recent experiance really suggests that your friends PSD may not be working right or it just needs more break-in time. I know way too many guys with the PSD that have some really bad ass trucks to bash them..I just wish they wouldn't be so smug and condesending towards my V10. Like you I think for what I do that it was THE choice and every day I get more and more impressed with the capabilities of this motor [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
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White 05 F350 King Ranch 3 valve V10 5R110 Auto 4.30:1LS 4x4 LWB SRW born on 3 Sept 04
I believe you too spoon, but have to admit that I think something may be off in that PSD. 11+mpg is pretty good for your v10 under those conditions. I would be happy with that if I was you.
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2000 Lariat 4x4 F350 Crew Cab SRW 7.3L PSD Long Bed Woodland Green/Harvest Gold ,Auto, 3.73, TT, Stockland Sebring Canopy: MILEAGE 21@ 65mph 19@ 72 mph, 15.8 in City.
2006 Nissan Armada LE, all options available from nissan its has, tech package, dvd etc etc etc. Runs like a bat out of hell. Amazing motor.
I AM happy with my MPG numbers and the motor in general. I just found out we'll have a 2nd '01 PSD (CC LB XLT) with about the same odometer readings pulling about a 3500 # boat-load in August. Should be interesting to see the results.
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2001 F251 SRW Lariat CC 156 4x4, V10, 4R100 Auto (#3!), 3.73 LS, ESOF, BU sensors
OffRoad, Camper Pkg. Born, KTP: 08-01-00, Delivered: 8-29-00
SCMT, Volant intake, Gibson stainless cat-back exhaust, PML ALu trans pan and diff cover, Snuglid, 285x75R Geolandar AT II+, Edelbrock IAS shocks.
I think you'll begin to see the real difference when you start pulling more significant loads. 2K to 4K lbs is nothing for either of those trucks, but put 15K lbs behind each and check the results.
You mentioned you're towing in flatland. In those conditions, the aerodynamic drag of the load will make a much bigger difference in MPG than the weight difference.
FYI, I get between 11-14 MPG pulling a 24' enclosed race trailer weighing about 7K in not so flatland. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]
Later,
David
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David
2001 F-250 4x4 SC SB PSD 6-Speed, 3.73LS, Flo-Pro 4" Dual Exhaust, DP-Tuner F-5 , Gear Vendors OD, South Bend Con OFE Clutch, Peragon Folding Tonneau.
I pulled a 16' car hauler with a classic mustang on it from Denver up into Steamboat Springs, CO. That's 150 miles of mountain passes. On the way up I got 10.4 MPG and on the way back I got 11.8 MPG with my V10. The trailer weighs about 2k and the car about 3k. I probably had about 1k worth of tools and gear in the bed. I had no problems passing people, and I could go the speed limit the whole way.
Normally "in-town" I get about 12MPG.
I still haven't taken a long highway trip with just the truck to see what the highway mileage would be, I always seem to have a trailer on it... [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
My $0.02
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2000, F-350, SRW, XLT, SC, V10, 5 spd, 4x4, 4.30LS, Short Bed, Off Road Pkg, Camper Pkg, Silver Frost, F550 X Springs, Fabtech Dual Front Shock Kit, with Trailmaster SSV Shocks, Trailmaster SSV Steering Stabilizer, SuperChip, Banks Stinger Cat-Back Exhaust, Borla Headers, K&N Air Filter, Sony CDX-MP450X MP3 player, Infinity reference speakers x 4, Sony Xplod 75W x 4 Amp, Sony 12 Subs x 2, custom sub box...etc.
I just completed a similiar trip from N. Colorado to N. Wyoming with my F350, V10, 4WD, 4.3 gears, auto trans & extended cab. I haul a 9.5' Hallmark camper and figure I have about a 4500# load plus a lot of wind load. For 1110 miles I got 9.86 PG. Was dissapointed as that is what my '92 460 would have made. I note that none of the other comments V10's are new enough to have the flutter fix? Could the "fix" hurt mileage and power?
Are any of you Superduty users as upset with the cruise control as I am? I can't get it stay in OD. Once it down shifts it is very reluctant to go back into OD. Even after you top the hill and start down the other side???
I drove a V10 the other day. Lots of snap and I enjoyed the ride very much. Won't hear me being condescending. To each his own. I don't think I have to put the V10 engine down to be happy with my choice of a diesel.
I agree with Kraynol2 about not putting anyone else's pickup down.
In your example you mention the PSD got 11 pulling the 3500 lb. and that the V10 got similar milage. That may just be a function of the speed and driving habits. I have noticed that PSD's with 3.73 gears really start sucking the gas above 67 mpg+/-.
My wife and I have a 10,000 lb. 5th wheel that we pull with our trucks. I have noticed that when my wife drives (75 mph)we get a around 10.0+ mpg. When I drive at 65mph we get 11.5 to 12.5 pulling our trailer. (flat/no wind)
On our most recent trip through some winding roads I was unable to drive above 55mph and the milage spiked up over 13mpg.
A friend who has a F-250 with the 460 motor pulled my trailer before I bought it from him and never got more than about 5 to 6mpg. I am getting about double what he got.
Looking at the MPG numbers on the PSD there is such a wide range between the bottom performers and the top. I wonder what could make two seemingly identical trucks perform so differently other than driving habits.
I do agree with all of you. But did any of you really buy a super duty for fuel economy? I know I didn't, and I don't really care what mine gets, as long as when I tie on to whatever trailer I want to I know it will pull it. And I can haul the whole family comfortably while doing it. I love my new super duty, He// I like am all v8, v10, PSD it don't matter. The super duty in any form is the BEST truck on the ROAD!!! (or offroad) hehehe
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Ford Master Tech-Powerstroke Tech
Western-Diesel dealer for Kansas
2001 F-250 XLT CC, SB, 4x4 offroad, 5.4, auto, 4:10LS, manual hubs and T-case, cab lights, '02 head lights, 295/75/16 BFG AT on 16x10 eagle 1439's, Toreador/silver w/gray cloth, Carbon-fiber kit, Stull Billit grill insert, Ford/Harley bug shield, floor mats, and bed mat. 20% tint on front windows and 20% tint over the factory tinted rear windows and 20% tinted strip on front windshield
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Ford Master Tech-Powerstroke Tech
Western-Diesel dealer for Kansas
2001 F-250 XLT CC, SB, 4x4 offroad, 5.4, auto, 4:10LS, manual hubs and T-case, cab lights, '02 head lights, 295/75/16 BFG AT on 16x10 eagle 1439's, Toreador/silver w/gray cloth, Carbon-fiber kit, Stull Billit grill insert, Ford/Harley bug shield, floor mats, and bed mat. 20% tint on front windows and 20% tint over the factory tinted rear windows and 20% tinted strip on front windshield
One thing that does seems to be different between the two engines is the mileage numbers(observed). Everyone with a v10 seems to get the same general mileage. With the PSD it's a very wide range and if one gets low mileage then there is something wrong with it. My driving habits are different than everyone else here, yet I still get what most everyone else does...usually 10-12 around town, 12-13 on the highway. My highway is always with at least 1000# of tools, atv, etc in the bed, most times pulling a 1500# trailer.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robsd: One thing that does seems to be different between the two engines is the mileage numbers(observed). Everyone with a v10 seems to get the same general mileage. With the PSD it's a very wide range and if one gets low mileage then there is something wrong with it. My driving habits are different than everyone else here, yet I still get what most everyone else does...usually 10-12 around town, 12-13 on the highway. My highway is always with at least 1000# of tools, atv, etc in the bed, most times pulling a 1500# trailer.
Nothing wrong with mine.
Rob
'99 250 sd cc lwb 4x4 v10 33's on 10.5' wheels<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Here's my guestimate on why what you've observed is the case. A diesel engine has an advantage in that it CAN run on very lean fuel mixtures. But it doesn't do so when you're really leaning on the pedal. Gas engines always run at about 14:1 air/fuel ratio, no matter if they're idling or WOT. A diesel will run 14:1 at WOT, but at the other end of the spectrum, it will run as lean as 140:1 - one tenth the fuel delivery rate.
So at higher "throttle" settings, a gas and diesel engine will run similar fuel rates, and the only advantage the diesel has is a 25% higher energy content of the fuel.
But if a diesel truck is loafing down the highway at low rpm, it can run very lean fuel mixtures and stretch the fuel even further. So diesels have a wider range of fuel mileage depending on load and driver habits.
FWIW, my '01 (DRW 4x4, empty weight 8500) will get just over 20 cruising the highway empty. My worst mileage yet is 12.8 towing a 28' TT into a strong wind (the return trip with a tailwind was 14.2). My last tank was 14.5 and most of that was with two horses in a stock trailer behind and was a mixture of city/hwy. Empty back and forth to (and around) town I'm averaging 17.
This is a HUGE gain over the mileage I was used to getting years ago with a 460.
Even with 3.73 gears in a PSD, you can really kill the mileage when you run it fast on the highway. If you keep it under about 2100 rpm, the mileage will drastically go up. This is from my experience. I too had a V10. The mileage(with PSD)has been +3 mpg without trailer, +2 better with trailer. Both trucks had 4.30/4.10 gears with 5/6 speeds(V10/PSD).
Larry
__________________ THE ORIGINAL "FREIGHTRAIN" 1959 B61 Mack...15 gears of twin stick, black smoke huffin' fun 1967 F100 LB....352 ci/4 spd, nice daily runner 1969 F100 SB.....428 cubic inches of dual quad, 4 speed terror. 1964 Galaxie......390 cubic inches of blown big block...with a 4 speed 1964 Galaxie Country Sedan Wagon.....428 ci and 5 speeds of wheelstanding race car 40ft Haulmark trailer..for the car, quad, AND kitchen sink FOKISD MEMBER ATHS MEMBER....old trucks RULE!
My point I was angling toward was that some guys loafing down the freeway are getting 21,22,23 mpg's. While others doing the same loafing are getting 15,16,17.
If all gas engines use air/fuel the same and all diesels use air/fuel mixtures the same, then under simular conditions you should expect the simular mileage.
All I'm saying is that the observed(posted) gasser mileage spreads are a lot closer to each other than than the diesel spreads. And the question is why. Down here in Houston(flat and at sea level) I haven't talked to anyone getting the high mileage, this includes friends of mine and people I see at gas stations and restaurants(I'm sure there are some).
Of course if I had a PSD getting 15mpg then I probably wouldn't post in a thread where guys are getting 20, 21.
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