Wow! I'd like to see the HP numbers on that. Wonder if FoMoCo would swap engines with me??
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2000 Lariat F-250 4x4, SD, SC, SWB, V-10, 3.73LS, Auto
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Just a couple questions: Is it possible to get the same power but better mileage from an engine by increasing its displacement but not adding cylinders (longer bore/stroke)? If so, why not just make a bigger V8 like Chevy did instead of going to a V12 (as if the V10 didn't suck enough gas)? And if it works the other way, why does Chevy seem to not want to make a V10? Comparing a V8 and a V10, would the V10 have more HP and less torque, or the other way around? How dependant is torque on the length of the stroke (I always thought that the two were very closely related but could be wrong)?
I feel like I just opended a can of something... hopefully there are some experts around who can explain this.
- Alex
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2001 F250 4x4 XLT, SWB S/C, Black, V10 5-spd, 4.30 ltd slip, Snow plow/off-road Pkgs, LT265
Line-X, Weatherguard model 124, Acess Roll-up Tonneau Cover
Ordered: 04 Oct 00 Built: 25 Oct 00 Some Pictures
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2001 F250 4x4 XLT, SWB S/C, Black, V10 5-spd, 4.30 ltd slip, Snow plow/off-road Pkgs, LT265
Line-X, Access Roll-up Tonneau Cover, Pro-Flaps, ID lights Some Old Pictures
To answer ACN's question YES. Look at the Chevy Vortec 8100. Its a 490 ci, 8.1 Liter. (300 Hp-450 TQ) and the Chevy gets way better than my 7-8 MPG.
The only V12 in Fords current lineup is in the Aston Martin V12 Vanquish car. The engine is actually two Vulcan 3.0 6 Cyl. engines melded together to bring in 450 HP!!!
I think ford went with a V10 because their main competitor Dodge has had one out for quite sometime with a lot of success. Or maybe when they changed the look of the trucks they wanted to start over fresh in the engine dept. BTW Chevy doesn't need to make a V10, their V8 is right up thier with our V10, probally better because of the displacement.
Bottom line: Ford needs to come out with a bigger V10 or a new V12. And Im talking about an 8 litre or higher!! PS: I don't think Ford will go with a Triton V12.
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2000 F250, XLT, Silver, F550 X Springs, SC, V-10, 3.73LS, 4x4, SWB, Bug Shield, Vent Visors, Rhino Liner, Hyperwhite Bulbs, PIAA 1100x Super white fog lights.
".... and the Chevy gets way better than my 7-8 MPG."
Are you sure? That's alot of displacement to feed.
MPG is a funny thing. It's something that gets talked about alot, sometimes with alot of exaggeration. There are some pretty wild claims stated regarding mileage! Most people who buy big gas engines know what they are in for as far as mileage is concerned.
I don't believe there are great differences between manufacturers current, similar sized engines, producing similar power output, driven similarly.
[This message has been edited by 3992824 (edited 01-25-2001).]
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2000 Ford Excursion XLT 2WD, Chestnut/Parchment, V10, 3.73ls, autolamps/DRL's, Rear air deflector, Banks Powerpack with Transcommand, Edelbrock I.A.S's, 1 steel rear lift blocks, Tekonsha Sentinal. Towing a '00 Holiday Rambler 31 SKS, 10K gvwr
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by acn: Just a couple questions: Is it possible to get the same power but better mileage from an engine by increasing its displacement but not adding cylinders (longer bore/stroke)?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
A larger engine displacement requires more air and fuel to feed the engine regardless of cylinders. As an engine get's larger, it's HP typically increases while it's gas mileage get's slightly worse.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If so, why not just make a bigger V8 like Chevy did instead of going to a V12 (as if the V10 didn't suck enough gas)? And if it works the other way, why does Chevy seem to not want to make a V10? Comparing a V8 and a V10, would the V10 have more HP and less torque, or the other way around? How dependant is torque on the length of the stroke (I always thought that the two were very closely related but could be wrong)?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There is no way the 8.1 Chevy V8 get's better mielage than the small V10 Ford. The 6.8L V10 is a 5.4L engine with 2 clyinders added, so in reality it is a larger V8 . As for why Chevy didn't want to make a V10, who knows? They certainly could have, but maybe not as easily as Ford did so cost may be a factor. As for torque and HP comparisons, the engine with the longer stroke will make better low end power compared to a similar sized engine with a short stroke no matter the clyinder count. The Chevy has the displacement advantage, and that certainly plays a role in why they have a HP and torque edge right now. Ford needs a larger gas engine.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I feel like I just opended a can of something... hopefully there are some experts around who can explain this.
- Alex<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am certainly no expert, but since I am a drag racer, I sorta know what makes an engine work and what doesn't
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2001 F-250 SD V10 Lariat on order
1989 Mustang Drag car
NMRA EFI Renegade MONDOLX Racing
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2001 F-250 SC SB 4x4 V10 Lariat, Black with Harvest Gold Tutone
heated leather captains, 3.73 trac lok, power TT mirrors, 6 disk in dash CD, roof lights, camper package, custom subwoofer box w/2 8 subs, Access roll-up tonneau cover, BFG 285's....etc
Recently in some publication (can't remember which one) they tested Chevy's new engine, if I rember correctly it did not even get into the double digits around town as far as mileage goes.
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1999 F250 4x4 Supercab, V10, Lariat, 4.30ls 6" National Spring Lift, Dual Shocks, 16.5 x 9.75 Weld Typhoons, 36x14.50 TSL Radials, K&N Gen. II, Magnaflow Dual Exhaust, Billet Grill, Line-X
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1999 F250 4x4 Supercab, V10, Lariat, 4.30ls 6 National Spring Lift, Dual Shocks, 16.5 x 9.75 Weld Typhoons, 36x14.50 TSL Radials, K&N Gen. II, Magnaflow Dual Exhaust, Billet Grill, Line-X My Truck
Personally, I wish they would have have made a 415 cu. in. V8 instead of a V10, with the additional displacement made with a longer stroke. We could have had 415 cubic inches worth of power...more torque with the longer stroke...the good V8 sound...and good efficiency with the modern overhead cam, tuned port fuel injection, etc.
There is a couple of reasons why Ford did a V10 and not a big V8.
First. It is a modulor motors. The 6.8L is a 5.4L with two additional cycliders. Ford saved big $$$ on tooling/fanufacturing costs.
Second. Ford discovered, that it is too difficult meeting the tight EPA standards of the us gov. Triton motors have received numerous green awards.
If you look at the HP per cubic inch ratio, Ford is making .75HP per cubic inch. Chevy is .68HP per cubic inch. If you gave Ford the same cubic inch at the .75HP ratio, the V10 would make 372HP. (This is a simple way of looking at it, there is more too it in reality.)
Just what till 2003. Ford will be offering their 3 valve triton's (2 intake 1 exhaust). The 5.4L is shedule to be around 300-325HP, so the 6.8L should be around 377-408HP. I am speculating on the 377-408HP, but I have seen the numbers for the 5.4L.
Pls, anybody can make HP, just spin the motor more. The secret in a truck motor is TQ, and Ford does the best at low end TQ. GM's peak TQ numbers are typically around 4k rpm. That's good for racing, but not good for pulling.
One of my pals just got the new Chevy 8.1. Guess what he gets for MPG??
City- 6-8
Highway-10-11
UNLOADED! He is very disappointed in the motor. Good for pulling, but not much more that the V-10. Chevy claims big on paper, but everyone knows Ford comes true in real life. He regrets not getting the SD, was one of the those wanting the 8.1 before anyone else had one. But when he saw the the power difference between the Chevy and Ford was so little, be wants my MPG of 12-14. Just my $0.02
p.s. - you should hear that 8.1 with dual exhaust
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White 2000 Ford F250 SD Supercab 8ft. box 4x4, V-10, everything but leather, dual exhaust, K&N, BFG's 315/75R16, saving for a supercharger.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Second. Ford discovered, that it is too difficult meeting the tight EPA standards of the us gov. Triton motors have received numerous green awards.
for pulling.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
After reading my own quote, I figured I should elaborate a bit.
Ford, stated that meeting the emissions standards with a motor that has a bore above 3.5" is difficult. So that is one of the reason a V10. 5.4L with two more cylinders is the 6.8L.
Assuming that is true (read off BlueOval new) I not sure why Dodge and GM have big bore motors. I really figured that big bore motors had their days numbered.
I may be that there are less efficient per cubic inch than Fords.
Plus, I think GM is hurting them selves in the long run staying with OHV. Ford has a lot better upgrade possibilities with over head cam motors. All Ford has to do is add 4 valves per cylinder and they will stomp the 8.1L
Absolutely the Ford OHC engine is more efficient than the Chevy and Dodge OHV engine. That's why the Ford's can make more HP per cubic inch of displacement than either make can. If Ford ever did step up to a 4 valve V10, the Chevy's would be in for a serious hurtin. I doubt that will happen though.
Ford is on the right track using a long stroke motor for it's trucks. Peak HP is only a number, what really matters is the torque curve of the engine, and the Ford V10 has an awesome torque curve. It would be cool to see a side by side comparison on a Dynojet to see how the Ford stacks up to the new Chevy 8.1L. I bet the results would surprise people.
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2001 F-250 SC SB 4x4 V10 Lariat, Black with Harvest Gold Tutone
heated leather captains, 3.73 trac lok, power TT mirrors, 6 disk in dash CD, roof lights, camper package, custom subwoofer box w/2 8 subs, Access roll-up tonneau cover, BFG 285's....etc
I took a trip with a friend last weekend in a new 8.1L (496 CID) chevy, it got better mpg than my PSD. This truck had a 5 sp auto, 4.10 rear end and REALLY moved.
I don't know about V-10 being more efficient than a V-8, the more cylinders the higher the coefficient of friction the less efficient the motor.
I have owned both ford and chevy motors and what I have seen is that chevy always gets better economy, don't get me wrong, I think the ford 460 is a AWESOME motor. But because I want the luxury of a auto trans. and a big motor I would look at the chevy, fords auto trans leaves little to be desired.
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96 F350 CC LB XLT SRW E4OD 4.10 4X4, K&N, A-Pillar W/boost, trans temp, pyro, Warn manual hubs
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