V10 with heavy camper, 4.10, 4.30, 4.88 gears??

[bigjimcruising]

Looking at trading in my 07 F450 PSD for an F450 or F550 V10 4x4. Since I'm hauling about 6,000 pounds around on the bed I'm wondering which rear end gear should I go with? With my PSD I'm running 2500 rpm's at 65 mph. The mpg is killing me. Right now for my combined mileage I average about 8 mpg loaded or unloaded, plus the $100 oil changes are really killing me! Will the gasser do better or worse in mileage? I'm just wondering if the switch would be worth it. For you guys already there your opinions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Jim.

[jonrjen]

My 06 V-10 will avg. 13.6 to 14 empty. I have the 4:10 rear end. The sweet combination seems to be the V-10 mated to the 4:30 which will cost you about 1 MPG. But I hear if you are towing/hauling or going to larger tires and wheels it is a nice set up. The cheap oil changes are nice on the V-10 when compared to the 6.0 PSD. Fuel filters are also a bargain when compared to the same not to mention the difference between diesel and gas price at the pump. A v-10 loaded with 6K in the bed will most likely be around 8 to 10 MPG depending on terrain, wind, and the pressure of your right foot on the go pedel.
My F-450 has the 4:30s and is also a 4x4 6.0 auto. However I average 13 to 14 MPG overall driving. If I keep it around 55 to 60 MPG I can get double what you say you are getting. I wouldn't think the 4:88 would cause that much of a difference.

[jfairbarn]

We carry a 5000 lb. Arctic Fox camper on our '05, CC, 2WD, F350, DRW with the 6.0. Great truck, zero problems (knock on wood)in 43000 miles. Diesel around here is averaging .43 cents more per gallon than gas with no sign of relief....getting harder every day to fill 'er up! I doubt you'd get much argument these days that the rising cost for fuel, maintenance etc. has greatly reduced the benefit of a diesel over the V-10....for most recreational purposes anyway. My '01, 7.3, CC, F350 would often get 18 plus miles per gallon on flat road going to Vegas @ 75 mph (unloaded). I'd get 13 with the camper in similar conditions (no wind). The 6.0 has never got anywhere near that...13.5 unloaded and 10 loaded....best case! The new 6.4 isn't reported to be doing that well either from what I read. Neighborhood of 12-13 around town empty I hear. I've got the 3.73's and I love the way the truck handles the camper. From what I'm reading here and elsewhere the V-10 gets closer to 8-10 overall with a load, but it's missing that diesel torque up or down the hills. I hate pulling the gear lever down to 3rd or 2nd and having the engine wind up to 4000 + rpm climbing a 6% hill. Been there and done that. I sure like putting my foot down and having that Power Stroke take my camper with my 17 foot Lund in tow to the top and down the other side no matter what and with no strain. I'm afraid that those of us with these high end toys and big old trucks to pull em' down the road may just be barking up the wrong tree if we think were ever going to see cheap fuel again. I'm a retired baby boomer and can just about guarantee it ain't gonna' happen on my watch! Good luck and have fun with that truck/camper!

[NSF250]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigjimcruising</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking at trading in my 07 F450 PSD for an F450 or F550 V10 4x4. Since I'm hauling about 6,000 pounds around on the bed I'm wondering which rear end gear should I go with? With my PSD I'm running 2500 rpm's at 65 mph. The mpg is killing me. Right now for my combined mileage I average about 8 mpg loaded or unloaded, plus the $100 oil changes are really killing me! Will the gasser do better or worse in mileage? I'm just wondering if the switch would be worth it. For you guys already there your opinions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Jim. </div></div>

Are you trading your truck just for fuel economy reasons? First, I highly doubt the V10 will get better fuel economy than the 6 in the same truck, under the same conditions. Second, even if the V10 is cheaper to operate, I would think the loss you will take on trading an '07 will not be worth it. And finally, why are your oil changes so expensive?

[bigjimcruising]

Reasons to trade: fuel economy, very high maintenance costs, very high fuel costs, diesel doesn't seem to have the power it should over a gas engine, noise, sluggish to drive in city traffic etc etc. As for reasons my oil changes are so expensive is my truck is dealer maintained. After reading about all the problems with the 6.0 on these boards I don't trust the oil change monkeys at the local chop shops and I sure don't want to risk my warranty coverage! And before you ask, no I can't do it myself. So even if I get the same economy in the gasser I'll still be operating much cheaper when I consider all the extra expenses of owning the diesel. I'll see what kind of trade in I get from the dealer, if the deal isn't what I want then I'll just keep driving the oiler.

[bigjimcruising]

Thanks for the input guys! I was hoping to get a wider range of opinions but for now it looks like I should shoot for the 4.30 gears. I'll also jump up to 35 inch tires so that will bring the ratio back down a little.

jonrjen: it does seem like it's the 4.88 gears that are causing my poor fuel mileage. The engine is almost constantly running at very high rpm's for anything other then flat and level cruising at 50 mph. In fact 2000 rpm's is about 52 mph on flat and level highways. As soon as I hit a hill or need to go faster the rpm's jump way up there. When running up hills on the freeways I'll often be running at 3200 rpm's for the entire climb. Plus just pulling away from a traffic signal causes the rpm's to shoot up around 3000 rpm's. From what I've read and been told from the mechanics I've talked too it's just these high rpm's that are killing my mileage.

Guitarman45: I'm amazed that you're doing so well with those 3.73 gears! Looks like you've got the right combination although I would think you'd have a tougher time with the camper on it. My engine always seems like it's straining going up hills but I now think that's just because I'm running at such high rpm's. I'll typically run about 3200 rpm's going up hill and on the steeper grades it will run 3500 rpm's! Personally I think that's way to high for a diesel but the tech's tell me it's ok, that's what the engine was designed to do. I think you're right about fuel prices, that's part of the reason why I might as well jump back to gas. Fuel costs with all the other expenses just doesn't seem to make the diesel worth it anymore.

Thanks for the input guys!! I need all the help I can get!!

[jfairbarn]

Bigjimcruising,

The 3.73's seem perfect to me. NO strain on the rig camper/boat on or off. I've had a lot of trucks with a lot of gas motors & trannys etc. and pulled a lot of miles. Never had a rig that handles all the road has to offer as effortlessly as this Ford diesel with this gear ratio....no I don't work for Ford. I can't recall my specific rpm's so I won't go there. I never really paid much attention since it was really effortless with the truck. Your numbers strike me as a bit high from what little memory I have. I'm trying to figure why our performance is so different? Sure sounds like your truck just isn't tuned right? Wonder if it needs some attention? On another front; you don't need to change oil via the dealer just to maintain your warranty. I average about $65.00 at the local oil joint. I do it myself once in awhile, but I don't like dealing with 16 quarts of waste oil! I do the fuel filters, drain the water filter, and so on myself as well.....piece of cake. I do carefully maintain the records/receipts etc. Anyway, good luck with your dilemma keep us posted on the outcome. If your going for the new truck, be sure and check out that new F450 (wish I was looking for an '07). Nice! Bobby Williams will take good care of you!

[bigjimcruising]

Thanks Guitarman45, I'll give keeping my diesel some more thought. I'm not sure why we're getting such different results either except it must be the gears. I might hold off on the gas truck until I get some larger off road tires and see if that helps at all. My original idea was either 37 or 40 inch tires to help reduce the gearing. I just hated to spend several thousand dollars if it wasn't going to really help. I'll also check around the local shops and see if I can get a break on those oil changes! I'll keep everyone posted, I might make a couple other posts along these lines for more input. Thanks for the comments!! Jim.

[Lightningfast01]

A v10 will not get the mileage of a 6L turbo diesel no matter what you do to it. Expect a 3-4 mpg drop at least. I get 15-17mpg in my 6L 05 F250, my brother gets 11-13 in his identical V10 truck. He did save 5 grand up front though. But we use mine to pull for vacations etc...

[bigjimcruising]

Lightingfast01: right now I'm averaging 8 or 9 mpg, loaded or unloaded. Can you ask your brother what kind of mileage does he get when towing or fully loaded? How much does he tow or haul? I'm loaded at just under 6,000 pounds with the camper on my truck, I don't tow anything so my thinking is that even if I break even on mileage I'd come out ahead in fuel costs and maintenance costs. Thanks, Jim.

[Lightningfast01]

He hauled a Mustang to Houston on an open trailer and got 7.5mpg at 70mph. He usually gets 11 empty in town and his worst towing was 6mpg pulling my 24ft enclosed with furniture to Austin from Dallas. Probably 5K lbs or so. F250 supercab, fx4 with 4.10 gears stock 17" tires. I did the math on driving 40K per year. Even with diesel being 50 cents more a gallon than gasoline. It still cost 2 grand a year more in gasoline. That was assuming a 3-5mpg inefficiency in gas. I don't know what to do next purchase. I don't like the new EPA govt diesels. I am scared to own my 05 past 100K which is coming shortly.

[ordually]

Some more data points for you. Towing a 5K empty GN horsetrailer with my 05 V10 I get around 9-10 in the flats with the speed 65ish. Add some hills and bring the speed up to the limit (75ish usually) and I run about 7.5-8.5. Add some weight to 8-9K and it's 7.0 to 8.0.

Worst tank ever was doing 70MPH on the rolling hills of eastern Oregon's I-84 hitting 35-40MPH headwinds with a 8K load: 6.2. The winds were just killer that day.

Run a search on mileage in this forum and prepare to read for a while. You could also check out the V10 forum at ford&lt;hyphen&gt;trucks.com. There's a mileage poll for towing over there. My results seem pretty typical.

[bigjimcruising]

Thanks for the follow ups and extra data! Good stuff! For reference, if I even try to run 70 to 75 I'll get 7mpg at best. Worst tank ever with a never relenting head wind was 5mpg. So 7 to 8 in gas would be a straight across trade with my current mileage. My latest mpg average without any load is 9 so a jump to 11 mpg with a .50 cent reduction in cost could be a pretty good savings over time. I'm going to give some more thought to the 4.10 gears, I was leaning towards the 4.30 since all my load in on the truck. Lots for me to think about! Thanks for the link ordually, I'll give them a look! Thanks everyone for the comments! Jim.

[Lightningfast01]

Well let us know what you get. I bet it will lag like a dog and get 5-6mpg with 4.10s and weight. We are all quoting F250/350 mileage. 450's mileage will always be a few MPG less. I see it in the diesel forums all day F250's get 17mpg and all the 450's are getting 8-12.

[Pappy19]

A V-10 250/350 towing heavy will do just fine with 4.30's. I'll bet his mileage will be be a mile or two with the 6.4 diesel with all the EPA crap and from what I'm seeing on new rigs. I hear the only way to get good mileage on the new 6.4's is to block off the stock exhaust(and their 6 sensors) and add on a new exhaust straight pipe out the other side. Makes 20hp more and 2-3 more mpg. Makes sense to me, but I'll still take my stock V-10 and the less expensive gas and maintenance so far.