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Upgrades and Aftermarket - 6.0L Engine Upgrading or adding OEM or aftermarket equipment to your 2003-Up Super Duty or Excursion with 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.

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Old 05-30-2011, 04:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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EGR Delete? New to the 6.0

Hey everyone! I just bought an 06 F350 with 101k. I know questions about deleting the EGR gets asked a million times but Ive read things and i just cant wrap my mind around it. Ive read that there are kits that do it, ive also read that you can do it yourself without a kit either by passing some stuff with a few hoses or by welding it shut. Ive read that some guys just unplug the thing, im so confused on what to do! Ive also read it will throw a code and that if you get a tuner like sct tsx or spartan that it will clear it. Will a regular OBDII reader clear the code? Do you need to send in your tuner for them to put a tune in it to clear it?

If you delete the EGR will my chances of blowing a headgasket decrease? Seeing prices for a headgasket job almost makes me faint so I want to try and avoid that as much as possible even if possible?

Sorry for all the questions, Im just new to the 6.0 coming from the 7.3 where i didnt have to worry about a thing!!
Any help with this would be much appreciated because Im looking at keeping this thing till at least 200k and I need to keep it going as smooth as I can get which means easy on the wallet later on!

Thanks everyone.
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I installed a kit (made by River City Diesel) in my '05. Believe me, it took a load off my mind as I was worried about blowing head gaskets too. Mine didn't throw a code but I understand that the '06-'07 will. I'm pretty sure the SCT will clear the code. Putting the kit in will definitely decrease the chance of blowing head gaskets by a huge margin. IMO, the full delete kit is the way to go as the cooler can't leak if it's not there and you get rid of the flex up-pipe, that's prone to leaking.
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2005 F-350 CC, LB, 4x4, Dually, 6.0 Powerstroke, Torqueshift, 4:10 Gears. Gooseneck and rear pull hitches. "Truck Covers USA" roll up aluminum tonneau cover. Putco Boss Running Boards. Aluminum finned diff covers. Bilstein HD shocks. ProComp steering stabilizer. XRF ball joints. NC Hornet CCV mod. RCD egr delete kit. AirDog fuel system. Strictly Diesel's regulated fuel and coolant return lines kits. Amsoil oil bypass (by NUC Motorsports) and homebuilt coolant bypass kits. CFM intake elbow. ARP head studs with factory gaskets and all upgrades. FICM by Ed with Atlas 40 tune, DC Power 185 amp alternator, MBRP 304SS "Cool Dual" exhaust system. SCT Livewire tuner with pyrometer. Autometer 'A' pillar gauges (Boost/Trans temp/Pyrometer/Fuel Pressure). 850 CCA Motorcraft Batteries. Using Rotella T-6 synthetic oil. Upgraded degas tank and cap. Hayes deep aluminum trans pan. GoGo Diesel modified direct clutch solenoid. Retro Solutions HID head and fog lights. High idle mod. Jimmi-Jammers. +More.
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Read the "basic info" link in my sig line. Do everything in that and your chances of blowing head gaskets go down close to zero.
If you delete the EGR cooler, you will get a code (P0401: EGR insuffiecient flow detected). I know the code by heart since I get it on occasion.
Before deleting the EGR cooler, you better be sure that there is no emissions testing, nor is there pending legislation to do so, and be willing to take a chance on a $10,000 fine. There is a chance you will get caught, depending where you live this may be exceptionally small, other areas police have been known to "bust eggs" on occasion and check for it.
Lets just say, for the sake or discussion, that you decide to delete the EGR cooler and in turn make your truck strictly for off-road use only <wink wink, nudge nudge>. The delete kit removes the EGR cooler, replaces it with a piece of pipe to direct the coolant flow back into the engine. You also have to replace the passenger side up-pipe to get rid of the exhaust connection. This would be the recommended course of action.
Welding a plug into the EGR cooler does not rid you of the problem. The weld could fail and your still looking at the same problem. I am not a fan of plugging it or adding something to block it off. If your going to do something, do it right, or potentially pay the consequences. If you are, or know, an excellent stainless steel welder, and will pressure test the welds, thats one thing, whipping out the welder in your garage and zipping a washer in there is entirely different.
If you deleted it, you will get a code, and will need an SCT (or some other brand name) where a tune writer can write custom tunes. The custom tune writer can delete egr valve function in the custom tunes (they run under $100 each for the tunes). Communication is the key to effective tune writing. You want the tune writer to know what you have done to the truck and what your expectations are and what circumstances the tune is written for. It is then up to you to use those tunes responsibly to preserve your head gaskets. You can't throw a hot street tune in it and expect to tow 10K pounds at 80MPH. Also, keep those boost numbers at or very close to stock, or you could be replacing head gaskets anyway. The stock head bolts are of the "Torque to Yield" (TTY) style (tighten them up to a certain torque value where they actually stretch a little) and use that force to hold the head down. Overpower those bolts and your in for new head gaskets.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks guys! you really cleared up things for me! I guess i just needed to slow my brain down as Im trying to take in all these things I have to do to to keep the new love of my life running! Hearing horror stories just make me nervous! Hey Ex Mounty you mentioned something about a "hot" tune, what exactly is that? Im know to the tuner/chip business. What tunes would you recommend for a guy just looking for a little extra power when hauling a gooseneck for of cattle and when not hauling just for some better MPGs?! Maybe even what tuner?
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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SCT X3 is a very popular model. I suggest either "quick tricks auto" or "innovative diesel".
Both of them are among the best in the tune writing business and both excel at customer service. Discuss your intended end use and what modifications have been done to your truck. They will know what tunes are best for your use.

Last edited by ex mounty; 05-30-2011 at 08:49 PM. Reason: my mastery of the keyboard and the location of the keys...in other words, typos
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Old 05-31-2011, 09:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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What are the performance gains with an EGR Delete. I have a 2005 If put in a quality delete unit will my engine still throw codes ? Which is the best brand to buy.

What is the best way to go. I'm installing the Bullet Proof remote oiling system, but wonder if the delete EGR is good or should I leave the EGR intact with a bulletproof EGR ?

This round is going to be real expensive and I want to do it right, the first time.

High quality EGR delete, high quality bullet proof EGR cooler ? Which is the best way to go for performance and reliability ?

I'm already planning to also go with a ARP stud set, Garrete Powermax upgrade Turbo, and Air Dog II just to make sure my injectors always get the right amount of clean fuel.

Any advice would be appreciated. This is going to be real expensive no matter which way I go. But, the truck has been sitting for 5 months and now its time to get it fixed.
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn11acr View Post
What are the performance gains with an EGR Delete?
None. You will gain 0 horsepower and 0 ft/lb's of torque. You WILL gain piece of mind knowing that since you no longer have an EGR cooler, it can not fail and end up in the boat you are sitting in right now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn11acr View Post
I have a 2005 If put in a quality delete unit will my engine still throw codes?
Yes, you will likely get the infamous p401 code, insufficient egr flow detected, but this code can be overwritten when you install an SCT tuner. The entire EGR function will be removed from the programming as part of the tunes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn11acr View Post
Which is the best brand to buy.
My opinion of the available kits has recently changed. Weeks ago, I would have told you to go to fleabay and buy the $150 delete kit. Now, I won't. River City diesel has the best kit for the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn11acr View Post
What is the best way to go. I'm installing the Bullet Proof remote oiling system, but wonder if the delete EGR is good or should I leave the EGR intact with a bulletproof EGR ?
If you do not have emissions testing, do not plan on ever selling the truck, are willing to take a chance at "someday" you could get checked for the EGR and be fined for not having one in place... delete it.
If you want to have the appearance of having one in place, Bulletproof diesel sells a unit that appears to be an egr cooler, but is actually a delete.
Or, if you wish to put an EGR cooler in the truck, but disable the EGR valve function, buy the real EGR cooler from Bulletproof diesel, and have a tune written that disables the EGR valve function.
All have drawbacks.
The EGR deletes can result in a hefty fine (up to 10 grand) if you are caught operating your truck on public roads and are caught without a functioning EGR cooler.
The "fake egr cooler" delete sold by bulletproof has the drawback (that you can address) and that is that it retains a serious restriction in the passenger side up-pipe. There is a "scoop" that directs exhaust flow into the EGR cooler, that should be removed. A dremel would work nicely. There is also the drawback of emissions testing with a "sniffer" as it would fail.
Putting in the Bulletproof EGR cooler and diabling the EGR valve function in a tune leaves a potential weak point in the system. The EGR cooler is not likely to fail again, but you never know. Also, deleting the EGR valve function does not mean that high boost won't force the valve open. It can, and does, happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn11acr View Post
This round is going to be real expensive and I want to do it right, the first time.

High quality EGR delete, high quality bullet proof EGR cooler ? Which is the best way to go for performance and reliability ?

I'm already planning to also go with a ARP stud set, Garrete Powermax upgrade Turbo, and Air Dog II just to make sure my injectors always get the right amount of clean fuel.

Any advice would be appreciated. This is going to be real expensive no matter which way I go. But, the truck has been sitting for 5 months and now its time to get it fixed.
What I would do is put in the ARP's (and check the heads for flat/straight and magnafluxed for cracks..also check the block for flat..if you can swing the cost, hardened valve seats installed).
Install the BPD oil cooler system (you can consider the "cold weather package" that has an internal thermostat, it will direct the flow of oil either into the cooler for cooling or bypass it to heat the oil to 180F)
Install an EGR delete. River City Diesel.
The powermax and airdogII are power adding and unless you get custom tunes, are a waste of money. You WILL need specific tunes to be written to enjoy the gain that the turbo is capable of. If the truck is not tuned for that turbo, you will experience alot more turbo lag. I highly recommend Quick Tricks Auto for the tuner and the tunes. Just tell them what your plans are and what you plan to do with the truck, and you will get back among the best tunes in the business. You may even get free tunes from them, depending on the tuner you buy.

Do not forget to add gauges to your list. Going without gauges is flying blind and flirting with disaster.
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex mounty View Post
None. You will gain 0 horsepower and 0 ft/lb's of torque. You WILL gain piece of mind knowing that since you no longer have an EGR cooler, it can not fail and end up in the boat you are sitting in right now

Yes, you will likely get the infamous p401 code, insufficient egr flow detected, but this code can be overwritten when you install an SCT tuner. The entire EGR function will be removed from the programming as part of the tunes.

My opinion of the available kits has recently changed. Weeks ago, I would have told you to go to fleabay and buy the $150 delete kit. Now, I won't. River City diesel has the best kit for the money.



If you do not have emissions testing, do not plan on ever selling the truck, are willing to take a chance at "someday" you could get checked for the EGR and be fined for not having one in place... delete it.
If you want to have the appearance of having one in place, Bulletproof diesel sells a unit that appears to be an egr cooler, but is actually a delete.
Or, if you wish to put an EGR cooler in the truck, but disable the EGR valve function, buy the real EGR cooler from Bulletproof diesel, and have a tune written that disables the EGR valve function.
All have drawbacks.
The EGR deletes can result in a hefty fine (up to 10 grand) if you are caught operating your truck on public roads and are caught without a functioning EGR cooler.
The "fake egr cooler" delete sold by bulletproof has the drawback (that you can address) and that is that it retains a serious restriction in the passenger side up-pipe. There is a "scoop" that directs exhaust flow into the EGR cooler, that should be removed. A dremel would work nicely. There is also the drawback of emissions testing with a "sniffer" as it would fail.
Putting in the Bulletproof EGR cooler and diabling the EGR valve function in a tune leaves a potential weak point in the system. The EGR cooler is not likely to fail again, but you never know. Also, deleting the EGR valve function does not mean that high boost won't force the valve open. It can, and does, happen.



What I would do is put in the ARP's (and check the heads for flat/straight and magnafluxed for cracks..also check the block for flat..if you can swing the cost, hardened valve seats installed).
Install the BPD oil cooler system (you can consider the "cold weather package" that has an internal thermostat, it will direct the flow of oil either into the cooler for cooling or bypass it to heat the oil to 180F)
Install an EGR delete. River City Diesel.
The powermax and airdogII are power adding and unless you get custom tunes, are a waste of money. You WILL need specific tunes to be written to enjoy the gain that the turbo is capable of. If the truck is not tuned for that turbo, you will experience alot more turbo lag. I highly recommend Quick Tricks Auto for the tuner and the tunes. Just tell them what your plans are and what you plan to do with the truck, and you will get back among the best tunes in the business. You may even get free tunes from them, depending on the tuner you buy.

Do not forget to add gauges to your list. Going without gauges is flying blind and flirting with disaster.
I already had an EGR one with the plugged openings. But you never know the future and unless I put in a semi-bulletproof from BPD then there is always the chance that my truck could be pulled over while traveling, not to mention the loss of resale value if I ever sold it.

I don't think the head gaskets blew. I watched the gages like a hawk and the EOT and the water temp were always "almost" exactly the same no fluxuation.

After considering your suggestions, I'll scrap the EGR I bought, and get the semi-bullet proof one with the bullet proof oil filter system from BPD. Then, I'm legal no matter where I drive it, and won't have something that could be docked on resale if inspected.

I'm going with the powermax, the Air Dog, ARP stud, "stock" head gaskets, SCT with a custom tune from the people you suggested.

Given my condition...LOL This will be my last hot rod build and I want to do it right. I'm leaving it to my one son who'd appreciate it. I'm all about reliability and no hassle these days, but I miss being unable to work on this truck myself, everything is big, heavy or hard to find on a diesel.

What you told me makes perfect sense viewed as a total package. The custom SCT tune & programer will tie it all together and I'll sell the Banks, and my old Turbo as it worked fine, and the plugged EGR on ebay.

I heard the whistle of the new powermax on Utube... wow, what a ominous sound...lol. With the bullet proof oiling system can I use those Amsoil 4 micron filters or do I need to go bi-pass filter too. I'm really fanatical about clean oil.

Given your excellent advice, aside from being the last high performance vehicle I ever build, your suggestions will make this truck my best one too.

If you ever need "advice" on making yourself Bullet proof from heart attacks, (I'm an herbalist) like the diesel engine there is a few easy methods to avoid/repair heart problems too. Feel free to contact me and I'll share what I know about "hearts" as you have done with me about the 6.0.

Do you have a list of who's the best for prices and buying/programing the SCT tuner. I'm going to follow you suggestions across the board. Life is too short to drive a boring vehicle....LOL. You have saved me a lot of time, shown me a path to achieve the goal I was looking for.

Thank you for taking the time... in return FYI I can prevent/reverse heart disease "herbally" if you or a loved one need advice from my area. Yes, it can be avoided and its simple. you can shoot me a private email at Thorn11acr@aol.com if I can be of any help,

I believe in returning favors and you've really helped me. AND of course my advice is always free too and I don't "sell" anything.

If you could show me a list of the best places to buy the things you suggested would be appreciated. I have a Diesel performance place in Hot Springs, their weird and I'd rather go the mail order route from places that forum members have found to their liking.

Again THANK YOU !!!

TOM
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex mounty View Post
None. You will gain 0 horsepower and 0 ft/lb's of torque. You WILL gain piece of mind knowing that since you no longer have an EGR cooler, it can not fail and end up in the boat you are sitting in right now

Yes, you will likely get the infamous p401 code, insufficient egr flow detected, but this code can be overwritten when you install an SCT tuner. The entire EGR function will be removed from the programming as part of the tunes.

My opinion of the available kits has recently changed. Weeks ago, I would have told you to go to fleabay and buy the $150 delete kit. Now, I won't. River City diesel has the best kit for the money.


If you do not have emissions testing, do not plan on ever selling the truck, are willing to take a chance at "someday" you could get checked for the EGR and be fined for not having one in place... delete it.
If you want to have the appearance of having one in place, Bulletproof diesel sells a unit that appears to be an egr cooler, but is actually a delete.
Or, if you wish to put an EGR cooler in the truck, but disable the EGR valve function, buy the real EGR cooler from Bulletproof diesel, and have a tune written that disables the EGR valve function.
All have drawbacks.
The EGR deletes can result in a hefty fine (up to 10 grand) if you are caught operating your truck on public roads and are caught without a functioning EGR cooler.
The "fake egr cooler" delete sold by bulletproof has the drawback (that you can address) and that is that it retains a serious restriction in the passenger side up-pipe. There is a "scoop" that directs exhaust flow into the EGR cooler, that should be removed. A dremel would work nicely. There is also the drawback of emissions testing with a "sniffer" as it would fail.
Putting in the Bulletproof EGR cooler and diabling the EGR valve function in a tune leaves a potential weak point in the system. The EGR cooler is not likely to fail again, but you never know. Also, deleting the EGR valve function does not mean that high boost won't force the valve open. It can, and does, happen.



What I would do is put in the ARP's (and check the heads for flat/straight and magnafluxed for cracks..also check the block for flat..if you can swing the cost, hardened valve seats installed).
Install the BPD oil cooler system (you can consider the "cold weather package" that has an internal thermostat, it will direct the flow of oil either into the cooler for cooling or bypass it to heat the oil to 180F)
Install an EGR delete. River City Diesel.
The powermax and airdogII are power adding and unless you get custom tunes, are a waste of money. You WILL need specific tunes to be written to enjoy the gain that the turbo is capable of. If the truck is not tuned for that turbo, you will experience alot more turbo lag. I highly recommend Quick Tricks Auto for the tuner and the tunes. Just tell them what your plans are and what you plan to do with the truck, and you will get back among the best tunes in the business. You may even get free tunes from them, depending on the tuner you buy.

Do not forget to add gauges to your list. Going without gauges is flying blind and flirting with disaster.
FYI

I know all about those "fines". When I was a Rancher / Cowboy back in the day...LOL. Everyone would put on their creased jeans, best spurs, and dress hat...and go to the sale barn auction every Friday night. It was a social event and was always packed. Unusual since the nearest town had about 800 people...LOL. Everyone drove diesels, and we used our "farm diesel" in our trucks. Most ranchers had at least a 300 gal diesel tank for our tractors....farm diesel was cheaper than regular street legal diesel and had sulphur for better lubrication..

One Friday I stayed home. The Feds came in blocked the exits and one by one dipped into the fuel tanks of every truck there, aprox 300 diesel trucks.

Nearly all of them turned up having "farm diesel" as it was hay season. Each one was fined as I remember somewhere around $5000 each. So with that picture in mind, I'll certainly go with BPD semi-bullet proof EGR.

You rarely can beat the government when they come for you for doing something minor but illegal. They will spend $100,000 to collect $5000 just to make an example to others. In the future who knows they could even "impound" your vehicle if you deleted their beloved smog systems.

I'll play it safe even though I retired in BFE, The feds pop up when you least expect it...even in rural places that have very low populations. It wouldn't suprise me in the least if they didn't someday come to a diesel event...and one by one as you leave put their exhaust sensor on your tail pipe...then order you to join the others as they impound your truck. Its quick cash and more and more likely as diesels and their upgrades become more popular... just something to think about. It would only take them 10 seconds to read your exhaust, and write you a ticket, a really BIG TICKET with no defense.

Thanks for refreshing my memory....I'll stay legal...LOL

TOM
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
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ARP head studs, $398
As far as tuners, it depends on what your looking for. Just a tuner that you connect to load your tunes, or do you want to have the capability to use them full time as electronic gauges/monitor? Check these out and the differences with them. I am suggesting this particular tune writer because they not only gets rave reviews, but I have heard stories of unbelievable customer service, before and after the sale. Never hesitate to call them for any assistance with any of their products. Phenomenal.
SCT Livewire, comes with lifetime unlimited custom tunes: $549 (how can you beat that?)
SCT Touch Screen Extreme, comes with lifetime custom tunes $899
The ever popular SCT X3 handheld flash tuner, unlimited custom tunes $425
The Powermax and airdogII, I have never really priced comparison shopped them as I have no plans to do those any time soon. The powermax can be had for right around 12-1300.
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