Upgrades and Aftermarket - 6.0L EngineUpgrading or adding OEM or aftermarket equipment to your 2003-Up Super Duty or Excursion with 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.
This is my first post as 365turbodiesel (previously 444turbodiesel) and as you might have guessed, I took delivery on a '07 F350 CC Lariat Tow-Boss today!
Let the mods begin!
My list so far:
1. Gauges!
2. Propane FOR MILEAGE ONLY!!! (which kit?)
3. SCT (who's programs?)
4. Exhaust (Do I need to just lose the converter or replace the whole system?)
5. ???Next???
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Welcome back and congrats on the new truck. You know, the more I see going on with modded trucks, the more i think the real "safe zone" is a tuner/pipe/exhaust and gauges. Once you step beyond that, there are some serious reliability issues that come up. It just gets expensive and time consuming.
As for fuel economy, the most effective modulator is your foot. I'm sure proane can add a little, but if you are hammering it, it won't help much at all. Overall, on a cost per mile basis, I don't think propane adds much no matter how you drive! You have to pay for a system, you have to pay for the propane, you have to be inconvenienced every time you need to refill, you have to carve out space for the cannisters, probably in the bed. I guess some people like the stuff, I don't see the overall benefit when you add up all the negatives.
Again, congrats on the new truck!
Ralph
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Black 2003 F350 DRW (almost nothing stock)
Other rides:
Black 2006 SRT8 300C (Mopar exhaust and CAI)
Black 2008 SRT8 Jeep (Mopar exhaust and CAI)
Black 2008 Mercedes E550 4MATIC
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I would be REALLY careful of the pane if you are set on using it. If not then as Ralph said I would moderate mileage with your foot.
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You'll be fine with the propane just use it with a tuner that has been tweaked for propane use. (Timing curve adjusted for propane). I like the Superchips Propane kit myself.
Tadd
__________________ Elite Diesel Custom Tuning www.elitedieseleng.com tadd@elite-diesel.com 1-866-631-8518
Elite Diesel SCT Tuning for 6.0 and 7.3's with Cylinder Pressure Adjusted tunes, Programmers or 6-position chips, Custom 6.0 Injectors, 2 Stages of 6.0L Fuel Systems, H-11 Head Studs, Fire Ring Kits, Single and Compound Turbos for the 6.0L, Engine Internals
04 F350 XLT SPORT CC DRW
Elite Diesel SCT Tuner,AFE Stage 2, 345cc Injectors, 6" Stacks, S400 turbo. 701hp on #2
Look in the september issue of Diesel Power Mag.
Ford Senior Master Technician
Appreciate the info, I haven't seen that one do you have a link?
Any advice on exhaust?
I keep seeing "pipe" in threads, are you guys talking about the DP, a Cat removal pipe, or a whole (4") system?
As far as everyone's concern with propane (and my justification) from reading multiple posts about soot contamination in the turbo vanes and EGR I feel propane would be very benificial in cleaning up (or maintaining) these troublesome areas.
I can get propane at wholesale cost through my wife's work (she's a service manager at a large RV dealer here in Elkhart, IN) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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I can get propane at wholesale cost through my wife's work (she's a service manager at a large RV dealer here in Elkhart, IN)
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In that case...I'd get the Superchips setup (MSD) and get the SCT with custom files for propane. I think TaddL @ Elite Diesel would be your man there. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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I can get propane at wholesale cost through my wife's work (she's a service manager at a large RV dealer here in Elkhart, IN)
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In that case...I'd get the Superchips setup (MSD) and get the SCT with custom files for propane. I think TaddL @ Elite Diesel would be your man there. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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OK the SuperChips is the MSD, that's why it wasn't familiar [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
Cool, I'll give Tadd a call!
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I don't understand the propane increases mileage part.
One gallon of Propane will only produce 91500 BTU's of heat energy, Diesel Fuel produces 140000 BTU's of heat energy, which means that one gallon of diesel fuel will produce over 1.5 times the engergy of one gallon of propane. This means that Diesel fuel would have to cost 1.5 times that of Propane to equal the true energy cost - right now the cost is about the same per gallon where I live.
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2003 F250CC shorty Lariat 7.3 PSD, Jody Tipton Flash, Autometer boost and EGT gauges, Nordskog trans temp, fuel press, voltmeter. Banks exhaust, Precision TC, Transgo tugger, Hyd oil filter on trans return line, custom HD y-pipe boot clamps, Take 3 5er hitch, PML pans, Manual TC lock and indicator, No-Start switch (anti-theft). -- 89 F250 7.3 IDI 4X4 tuff truck--92 Jetta eco-diesel, 425,000 miles and still going strong--Honda CRF250, Suzuki DRZ400 SUPERMOTO.
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I don't understand the propane increases mileage part.
One gallon of Propane will only produce 91500 BTU's of heat energy, Diesel Fuel produces 140000 BTU's of heat energy, which means that one gallon of diesel fuel will produce over 1.5 times the engergy of one gallon of propane. This means that Diesel fuel would have to cost 1.5 times that of Propane to equal the true energy cost - right now the cost is about the same per gallon where I live.
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Propane's function as a catalyst is more important than the power it provides from thermal output.
A normal diesel engine only uses about 65-70% of the diesel fuel injected in the combustion event to actually force the piston down. The rest is either burned after-the-fact (throwing soot into the turbo and EGR) or not burned at all (again, more soot, but this time it usually ends up in the oil) Propane causes the engine to burn upwards of 90% of the diesel in the cylinder, which translates into more power from the same quantity of injected diesel and a much cleaner burning engine. When used in the proper ratio, the cost of the propane is easily overcome by the savings in diesel (gross fuel mileage gains of 6-8mpg are possible) and lowered maintenance costs from soot deposits.
The key is to not use it as a performance enhancer (for big hp gains) only as a combustion enhancer.
My intent is to use the propane to maximize mileage and eliminate soot under normal driving conditions.
The SCT programs are for power (on diesel only) for those conditions where normal driving is not prudent [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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Tadd (or anyone who knows), what about trucks like mine putting down 500 HP? Can propane help that in the sense of more efficiently burning the fuel? Or is it more just for efficiency?
Ralph
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Black 2003 F350 DRW (almost nothing stock)
Other rides:
Black 2006 SRT8 300C (Mopar exhaust and CAI)
Black 2008 SRT8 Jeep (Mopar exhaust and CAI)
Black 2008 Mercedes E550 4MATIC
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Tadd (or anyone who knows), what about trucks like mine putting down 500 HP? Can propane help that in the sense of more efficiently burning the fuel? Or is it more just for efficiency?
Ralph
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I would say you wouldn't want to use it with an aggressive program (like anything making 500hp [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]) The timing should be retarded slightly to avoid detonation with propane, most big power programs have some advanced timing. If you have a "stock" program that you want to run for everyday driving, you could run the propane with it. Most (if not all) of the catastrophic failures I've seen were the result of either a very agressive program with propane on top, or way too much propane (even with a "mild" program) to start with.
Propane in a diesel acts similar to N2O in a gas engine, it is a combustion enhancer. Unlike N2O though, propane is a fuel in itself, but is too volatile to be used for big hp gains in a diesel.
N2O in a diesel is more like a liquid aftercooler. It provides little power by itself, but it does allow you to run more fuel with less (mechanical) boost. If you're looking at reducing smoke (unburned fuel) in a agressive program you're better off with N2O.
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