Question Once and For All

[rayw]

hig

According to the law, if you have an engine problem that ordinarily would be covered by warranty, the dealer must prove that your chip has caused the failure. From what I am told that is next to impossible. My Ford dealer in Bravard is a real ninny when it comes to aftermarket equipment. Down the road in Hendersonville, NC the Ford dealer carries and installs exhaust brakes and chips. There is a big sign over the parts department window - I don't think Ford is unaware of this.

I any event, like you I will wait until Ford has the current problems ironed out before I mess with chips and such, However, that won't stop me from installing a K&N and rear Bilsteins.

up up and away [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[defrag]

Certainly the Ford techs can check their black boxes for tell-tale historical data that might indicate a modded engine such as higher pressures or temps right?

[frobozz]

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Ah, but they already are! Re-read what they tell you they're monitoring! It's right there, they're monitoring the engine, throttle, speed, etc.. etc...

Maybe they haven't gotten their programming down pat, but they are monitoring what the truck is doing!

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Either you're reading more into those statements or I'm reading too little.

It's one sort of problem to keep the last 10 seconds of telemetry data when the airbags go off. It's quite another problem altogether to log everything your truck ever does and be able to scroll back through it looking for evidence of a performance-enhancing product.

Remember also that they are only logging what the PCM's view of the world is. If they monitor what they told the injectors to do, that doesn't mean that's what the injectors actually did. Like I said, with some more esoteric heuristics they could determine that something was fishy, but I really doubt they have gone to those lengths yet. I also don't doubt that they *will* someday go to those lengths if 6.0L boxes become popular and grenaded engines become commonplace. (Not that one leads to the other, of course, but if they did Ford would have a huge incentive to make their box a lot smarter.)

Duncan

[teamroper60]

If they can monitor the "the use of restraint systems including seat belts by the driver and passengers..... engine, throttle, steering, brake or other system status" and "information regarding how the driver operates the vehicle, potentially including but not limited to information regarding vehicle speed, brake or accelerator application, or steering input", what makes you think they can't monitor how much fuel/air is actually dumped into a cylinder, or how much the timing was actually advanced or whatever else the chip/module does? Any system that is advanced enough to monitor your steering input is certainly advanced enough to figure out those things.

[frobozz]

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If they can monitor the "the use of restraint systems including seat belts by the driver and passengers..... engine, throttle, steering, brake or other system status" and "information regarding how the driver operates the vehicle, potentially including but not limited to information regarding vehicle speed, brake or accelerator application, or steering input", what makes you think they can't monitor how much fuel/air is actually dumped into a cylinder, or how much the timing was actually advanced or whatever else the chip/module does? Any system that is advanced enough to monitor your steering input is certainly advanced enough to figure out those things.

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Because they have already sensors for those first things you listed, and they don't have sensors for those second things you listed. As much as Ford likes to cut costs, I can't see them adding something to measure the amount of fuel that actually ended up in a cylinder, and at what millisecond it did so. (I'm not even sure how you'd do that! Maybe some sort of instrumentation on the injector plunger?)

Duncan

[teamroper60]

Don't have a clue how they'd do it, but I sure wouldn't want to bet the farm that they can't! Again, my point was not that I'm against mods, (because I'm not). It's just that attempts to hide them may be futile and even lead to more questions as to just why you chose to try to hide them.

[duner72]

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Do Aftermarket "chips" void the warranty on a new 6.0 diesel, simple question? I think they do. But will stand aside if I am wrong. The reason I ask is that many are choosing to use them, and with some of the problems with the 6.0 I would hate to see a guy left out to hang on an unrelated problem, i.e. injector failure or rear main leak, and let Ford hang it all on the "chip". If you put one in, is that it, can they say regardless of the engine failure, you "chipped" it see ya later on a warranty claim............Hig............

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The way I look at it is that the dealership makes money on the repair from ford regardless of why the truck broke. The repair cost on your truck doesn't come out of their pocket

[PoppaSmurf]

Another .02,

Those factory warranties are written by lawyers. There's a clause to cover nearly anything they can imagine up. As for the dealers saying that "they" will back you up - Well they can say that until you come crawling back with a blown transmission or whatever. Should FMC find out that the vehicle was chipped or otherwise modified, FMC won't be reimbursing that dealer for that part.

At this point in time, you'll get to find out what your dealer's word is worth. Probably a, "I'm sorry... we can't cover that...." So it all boils down to whether or not you have the cash to back up the risk. It blatently states in the warranty that any jacking with the vehicle will void the warranty. Depending on how you want to interpret the various clauses, this includes chassis mods as well. Again, these things are written by lawyers!

Granted, they typically let most of the chassis mods slip by and such, but if the failing part has any kind of price tag associated with it... ANY EXCUSE to get out of having to cover it, they'll use.

So buyer beware!

Happy Truckin,
Brian.