Tuner without studs

[km335]

Hey guys I got an 04 F-250 113,000 miles. It is mostly stock except an exhaust and i blocked off the egr. I'm lookin to get a tuner next probably SCT. Most of my friends with 6.0s blew the head gaskets within a few months of tuning their trucks. I know i gotta put studs in sooner or later, just wondering if any of you guys have been running tunes with stock head bolts for any long lengths of time without any issues...

[lubbockguy1979]

ran tunes for over a year without studs. specifically the hybrid race file from spartan. 150+hp. i would advise you to get some type of gauges. egt, boost, trans are common. egt is the most inportant. keep the temps in spec and drive with sense and you should be ok. but dont blame me if you have issues. you play be willing to pay

[neogio]

I've run my Chip on Extreme all the time without any issues and hang with the rest. You get a SCT your shieit will blow up. You need a modded engine to handle those tunes those fools program.

[Pharkor]

Originally Posted by neogio

I've run my Chip on Extreme all the time without any issues and hang with the rest. You get a SCT your shieit will blow up. You need a modded engine to handle those tunes those fools program.

And you know this how? How many engines have you blown up? What dealership did you take your truck to for repair?

I'd like to call them to verify that you actually messed up your engine/tranny from using an SCT Tuner with their custom tunes. If anything, I'd have to guess that you simply 'borrowed' someone else's download from what they had on disk and then used it for your own and/or you had equipment on your truck that wasn't factored in ... and all of this is providing that you've even owned/purchased an SCT Tuner.

Anyway, if you get in touch with Innovative Diesel, Eric can take care of with some actual "custom" tunes that are made for YOUR truck with any/all add-ons that you might have - up to and including the tire size.

So seriously here - what (if anything) have you ruined by running an SCT Tuner and/or any custom tunes?

[lubbockguy1979]

Originally Posted by neogio

I've run my Chip on Extreme all the time without any issues and hang with the rest. You get a SCT your shieit will blow up. You need a modded engine to handle those tunes those fools program.

there is so much that is incorrect here. first off. any tuner can cause you problems. second with custom tuning you dont have to get the highest avalible hp tune. you can choose what fits your needs. third if there was a worse specific company than edge for tuning and by that i mean specifically trans tuning id like to see it. any reputable tuner with sct will be honest about all of their tunes and help you out. they will tell you which tunes are likely to me to much for the mods that you have. i have talked to all of them at one point of another. the edge does not hang at all with a properly tuned sct... tuner for tuner. it also cannot do half of what the sct is capible of. if you use your head and watch yout gauges you can avpoid alot of problems reguardless of what diesel you have psd, cummins, or dmax

[Pharkor]

Originally Posted by lubbockguy1979

if you use your head and watch yout gauges you can avpoid alot of problems reguardless of what diesel you have psd, cummins, or dmax

That is exactly my point as well. I couldn't agree with you more. The bottom line is that with the SCT Tuner and some good custom tunes (try Eric at Innovative Diesel), you can run your truck on "aggressive" mode all the time, get much better fuel mileage as well as performance and not have a single issue with the engine in the least.

It's all about moderation and controlling how you drive and how you use the extra power.

The only time you won't want to use the aggressive tune (by Eric) is if you're towing more than 6k lbs or so - they say 10k, but I'm going to stick to a 6k limit and if I go over that - or am going to be going through a lot of mountains/hills, I'll simply reprogram with the towing software. As well, I'll use that tune for plowing snow.

I suppose that this is the beauty of the internet. Anyone can post bs about a product that they've never used and we all know that nobody would ever criticize a competitor or ever post rave reviews about their own product (yea right).

I'm leaving in the morning for a 1,600 mile trip with a light (1,500lb) trailer/atv in tow - I'll post my fuel mileage when I get back. But so far, it seems that I've gained about 3.5mpg just by loading up the aggressive street tune from Eric and my truck is (engine, tranny, intake, exhaust) still 100% stock. All I've done was change over the suspension for a better ride and have used Amsoil since 8k miles. I also use Opti-Lube XPD (?) for the fuel treatment and do very well.

[wyodiesel]

doing the studs is good insurance and reliability for your truck so git the studs. And feel good about your truck.

[Pharkor]

Originally Posted by wyodiesel

doing the studs is good insurance and reliability for your truck so git the studs. And feel good about your truck.

Why would I want to spend several hundred dollars to do that when all I have to do is set the rev-limiter to around 3,800rpms when I upload a custom tune on the truck? The SCT also let's me set my engine idle rpm as well - which is a nice to have option in the winter time - truck warms up quicker at 725rpm vs. 625rpm ...

... people really should read a lot more about what an SCT tuner can/will do for you when you get a good tune made for YOUR truck.

[Smiley1]

Originally Posted by Pharkor

Why would I want to spend several hundred dollars to do that when all I have to do is set the rev-limiter to around 3,800rpms when I upload a custom tune on the truck? The SCT also let's me set my engine idle rpm as well - which is a nice to have option in the winter time - truck warms up quicker at 725rpm vs. 625rpm ...

... people really should read a lot more about what an SCT tuner can/will do for you when you get a good tune made for YOUR truck.

You need to do a lot more reading if you think setting your rev limiter is all you need to do. Read about cylinder pressures, timing, and EGT's. Those three have little to do with the rev limiter.

I do agree that the SCT is the best / safest option given proper information, proper tuning, proper monitoring, and proper equipment.

[teamroper60]

Speaking of misinformation........

Originally Posted by lubbockguy1979

if there was a worse specific company than edge for tuning and by that i mean specifically trans tuning id like to see it.

neogio is running an Edge Evolution. That is a programmer, just like the SCT and does in fact, have trans tuning in it that is just as "protective" of the trans as the SCT. On top of that, Edge actually used cylinder pressure testing equipment as they wrote the tuning that is installed in the Evolution for the specific purpose of saving the headgaskets... That equipment is something only a couple of SCT custom tuners have. So in truth, Edge is doing far more to make "safe" tuning than most of the SCT custom tuners do.

That said, I don't consider it as a "safe" tuner. In fact, I don't consider any tuner to be safe without headstuds....

Originally Posted by lubbockguy1979

tuner for tuner. it also cannot do half of what the sct is capible of.

Again, wrong. In fact, the Evolution has more capabilities built into it than most (if not all) of the SCT tuners. The only real drawback to it is, Edge does not do custom tuning. The good news is, there is one company that does make custom tuning for it. PHP. The Gryphon tuner that PHP sells is that same Evolution just painted and marked up differently to release Edge from any liability for the fact PHP's custom programming is not CARB approved like the programs Edge sells.

Originally Posted by lubbockguy1979

if you use your head and watch yout gauges you can avpoid alot of problems reguardless of what diesel you have psd, cummins, or dmax

I agree with this but I disagree with it too... In most instances, watching the typical boost, pyro and trans gauges will tell you nothing about what is happening to your headgaskets. In fact, even watching coolant temps is probably not going to tell you much, since a headgasket issue is not related to temperatures. Generally speaking, an EGR cooler failure is related to temps but only on a localized level within the cooler itself, so even a coolant temp gauge is of limited value unless you somehow mounted it into the EGR cooler.. So, while having and watching gauges is important to protect things like pistons, turbos, etc... they will not tell you that your headgaskets are in danger.....

Finally, one need only spend a couple of hours on the diesel site of his choice, searching for puking and looking at the tuner of choice for most of those who are puking, to determine what the chances are that an SCT equipped truck will need headgasket work.

BTW, before you proclaim me ignorant of the SCT or a diehard Edge guy, look at my sig........ I own and run an SCT in my own truck. I like it and don't see myself changing to anything different. But I also have headstuds installed.. I just hate to see folks mislead by claims of it being "safe" because it is not. Not even with the so-called "safe tunes". Not even close....

[gitsome05]

he did say that he had an egr block off so wouldn't that pretty much negate him having to get studs?

[teamroper60]

Originally Posted by gitsome05

he did say that he had an egr block off so wouldn't that pretty much negate him having to get studs?

No. Not at all.. In fact, it may well hasten the need for them, since there is some anecdotal evidence to suggest that doing so increases cylinder pressure..

[boomboom]

Originally Posted by gitsome05

he did say that he had an egr block off so wouldn't that pretty much negate him having to get studs?

EGR has nothing to do with tuner and stud relations. A tuner is going to raise cyl.preasure on a already weak head bolt layout design. For some stupid ... reason the 6.0 had a reduction in the number of head bolts surrounding each cylinder. Basically it has 4 bolts per cyl. for a total of 10 bolts for compression purposes, compared to the 7.3 which has 6 bolts per cyl. total of 18 bolts, remember some inner bolts are used for two cyl's thats why total numbers are lower. Plus the type of bolt used doesn't help. I dont like "TORQUE TO YIELD" bolts, I've seen tooo many failures in this bolt (ALL-THREAD) design sense the mid 90's in gassers that dont have our compression

[boomboom]

Originally Posted by teamroper60

No. Not at all.. In fact, it may well hasten the need for them, since there is some anecdotal evidence to suggest that doing so increases cylinder pressure..

Thats problably true to a point but minimal

[Jared583]

I have an 03 with the Sct x3. I have been running it on extreme street for over a year with stock head bolts. Boosting 32 psi....no issues