Bio questions

[Firedude]

Ok guys I am about to start makeing my own bio diesel, and have a few questions:

1) What if any down-sides are there to running bio (plan on going for B100) is there any decrease in performance, power, you can see in my sig what upgrades I have done

2) Right now Im running stock injectors but plan on upgradeing to possible stage 1 or tranie savers, do's bio have any impact good or bad there?

Thanks for the replies
Roy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[RickHredf250]

The ONLY con I can come up with is cold weather. You will need to blend it. B20 = 20% biodiesel and 80% petrol, B30=30% bio and so on.
At about 40 deg f depending on the base of the biodiesel, such as soybean, canola corn etc, it will start to cloud and may clog filters.
The stock heater in out trucks do little to help prevent this nd conventional antigels do not work on Biodiesel.
Just have to experiment with ratios depending on the temp outside.
I have over 10k on my stock 97 mostly B100 homemade no problems as confirmned through oil sample test by Blackstone Labs.
You just have to take your time, no short cuts and make quality fuel.
What type of system are you going to/already have put together for converting the VO to Biodiesel?
Your truck will do fine, just have to keep an eye on the fuel pump and return lines as some have reported it going out after the BD gets everything cleaned out. And carry a spare filter, gloves and tools with you as Biodiesel is a great solvent and will clean all the crud out of your fuel system.
Rick H...

[Firedude]

What ratio's are best to use when it starts to get cold, I can be in the 40's one night and the next be below 0 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

I have a partner in my little venture and a really good to to boot, he is a professor here for about a yr. He has master degrees in Physics(sp),chemistry [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] and biology. He already has a appleseed system set up with separete metal 55 gallon drums for wash and drying, he stated that he was doing this before he moved out here and wants to get back into it and in addition teach someone how its done, so yes I have gone back to school but will pay attentin to this teacher [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]. He has already stated that he would like to move his set up, up to my place as I have more room and when he leaves stated I could just keep it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] So far the two of us have collected about 80 gallons of oil, he had already bought a 55 gallon drum of Meth. I have ordered the titration supplies and 30# of P.H. so we hope to be going with in the next week or so.
Once we have finished product is there a way to test the quality of the finished bio.? thanks for all sugestins

Stay safe out there
Roy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Spencnaz]

I would recommend a mix like around B30 to be safe. Last winter, I stupidly tried running B100 in 35 degree weather and it cost me 150 bucks to get towed home.

If you're in a pinch, you can premix kerosene and biodiesel to make a cold-resistant fuel. I think I was using like 50% biodiesel and 50% kerosene.

Now you can 'pretreat' your oil before processing by using some of the glycerin from previous batches. I dont have the numbers handy but there are several forum posts on biodiesel.community.org where they've done this and gotten fuel to stay clear down to like 25F.

I've done it once or twice as an off the cuff experiment and noted that it did work, just didn't write down the proportions [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] sorry about that.

[RickHredf250]

[ QUOTE ]

Once we have finished product is there a way to test the quality of the finished bio.? thanks for all sugestins
Roy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Measure out 27 ml of Methanol, then add 3 ml of Biodiesel and see what it does. Should stay clear. If you get a drop or two settle out on the bottom, no good, stays clear good.
Spenz, can you cut and paste your LONG post on the 27/3 test?
Rick H...

[Spencnaz]

As posted on infopop:

Jan Warnqvist's Conversion Test- Outstanding!

There has been a lot of discussion lately about conversion testing.
This test of Jan's, while posted on the JTF site for quite a while, has been completely overlooked by most people.
The thing that got me really interested about it is there is a fellow on the biodiesel Basics forum called Maurice who swears by it. He claims that if his biodiesel does not pass this test it will not work in his furnace.
As no one has ever tested it, and no one put their hand up to test it when I suggested that it should be tested, it seemed to be a perfect project for a retired Mouse.
So I teletyped my good friend Mickey and asked him to test it.

The results were unbelieveable!
It actually works, and works well and quick.
And it works on UNWASHED Biodiesel!
Within 10 seconds you know whether it is pass or fail. Over more time you can get an idea of what the conversion is.

Immediatly below is the procedure as originally posted by Jan.
Below that I have included Mickey's adaptations of the procedure as he teletyped them to me this evening.
Below that are the tests he performed to justify this post.

Jan Warnqvist original Conversion Test Posting

"Take exactly 25 ml of biodiesel and dissolve it in exactly 225 ml of methanol in a measuring glass.

"The biodiesel should be fully soluble in the methanol, forming a clear bright phase. If not, there is pollution in the biodiesel. Each ml of undissolved material corresponds to 4% by volume. Is there any undissolved material at the bottom of the measuring glass? If there is, your reaction is not complete and this is causing you trouble with the water test.

"This method does not cover every aspect of quality, but it gives a hint. It is valid only for biodiesel made from vegetable and animal oils. It is not valid for biodiesel made from oils with a very wide fatty acid pattern, such as fish oils."

This is the information exactly as teletyped to me a few hours ago by Mickey.

Jan Warnqvist's Conversion Test
This is a quick Pass/Fail conversion test for your biodiesel.
It works equally well with washed and dried or unwashed biodiesel. I did not try washed but not dried biodiesel.

Equipment needed

1. Something to measure out 27 ml of methanol.
2. A small container in which to put the 27ml of methanol. I used a small glass jar about 11cm (4.5”) high and 5cm (2.5”) across
3. A 3ml syringe without the sharp. These cost me 15c each from my pharmacy and I used a new one for each test.
4. Biodiesel to be tested.

Procedure
1. Insure the jar is spotlessly clean and dry.
2. Put 27ml of room temperature methanol into the jar.
3. Use the syringe to put exactly 3ml of the biodiesel under test into the methanol.
4. Gently Swirl clockwise (Anti-clockwise in the Southern Hemisphere) for 10 seconds.

If the biodiesel completely dissolves into the methanol and the methanol remains bright and clear you almost certainly have ASTM conversion biodiesel.
If the Methanol turns and remains cloudy for more than 10 seconds you do not have ASTM conversion biodiesel. Some biodiesel will eventually settle out to the bottom of the jar.

Tests Performed

I must admit, I was sceptical; but a sceptic with an open mind.

The first test
This test was performed with the quantities Jan suggests.
I tested some of my standard 15% methanol production biodiesel.
I put the 25ml biodiesel into the 225ml methanol, shook hard and watched.
The methanol turned cloudy and over a few hours a large amount of biodiesel settled to the bottom.

The second test
I have a number of samples of high conversion re-processed biodiesel sitting around from other tests, so I checked one of these. Again, using the quantities recommended by Jan, shook hard and watched the methanol turn cloudy.
However, the cloud quickly cleared and NO biodiesel settled out.
Could it be? Could there actually be something to this test procedure?

So I decided more tests were called for and, as I did not feel like using 225ml methanol per test, a bit of higher maths (using all 6 fingers and both thumbs) showed that 27ml methanol and 3ml biodiesel was in the correct ratio.
At great expense I purchased 15 syringes so I could have a clean one to accurately measure out the biodiesel for each test.
I found that biodiesel attacks these syringes very quickly, not sure whether it is the rubber or the plastic under attack.


Test 3
This test was with the new smaller amounts of methanol and biodiesel.
This test was with another high conversion re-processed sample.
This time instead of shaking hard I just swirled the test around with the liquids going no further than about 1/3 up the side of the jar.
The biodiesel immediately completely dissolved into the methanol with NO cloudiness to the methanol. It remained this way for several days until I disposed of it.

Test 4
This test was performed the same as test 3, but the biodiesel tested was with some of my 15% production biodiesel.
The methanol immediately clouded. Over an hour or two the cloud cleared and a substantial amount of biodiesel settled to the bottom of the jar.

Test 5
This was with Another re-processed high conversion batch and again the biodiesel immediately completely dissolved into the methanol with no cloudiness. No biodiesel settled out.

Test 6
I poured a small amount of the biodiesel from test 4 into about 30ml of biodiesel from test 5 and tested as per instructions.
This produced cloudy methanol which cleared within an hour and a small amount of biodiesel settled out on the bottom of the jar.

Test 7
Yet another batch of 15% Production biodiesel which clouded and settled out biodiesel as it set.

I then re-processed a litre of this biodiesel with 1g NaOH in 50ml methanol. As expected more glycerine settled out.
I then Washed the biodiesel and tested the reprocessed biodiesel

Test 8
This test was of the reprocessed biodiesel used in test 7.
To my surprise, this test produced cloudy methanol! I was amazed. But over an hour or two a number of “Drops” of biodiesel settled out onto the bottom of the jar.

I then re-processed this oil a second time and a “Soft Gel” developed which indicated high conversion.
However, I then re-shook the gelled biodiesel and it broke down into a liquid and cloudy phase and still remains like this 4 or 5 days later.

Test 9
I tested this unwashed re-reprocessed batch and it passed! No cloud, no biodiesel settling out.
This test seems to be more “Discerning” than the World Famous Dr Pepper ASTM Reprocess Technique (Pat Pend) and apparently works on unwashed biodiesel!

Test 10
I made a litre of high conversion biodiesel from some WVO titrating at 0.4
I used 7.5g NaOH mixed into 300ml methanol.
One hour after last shake I tested this biodiesel and the methanol remained clear and bright!

Test 11
I poured 20ml of this biodiesel into a container and added 2ml of my 15% production biodiesel and stirred thoroughly.
I then tested this and the methanol clouded. After about 30 minutes the methanol cleared and there is clearly a small “Glob” of biodiesel on the bottom of the Jar.

Test 12
Re-tested this unwashed high conversion batch I made a few hours ago.
Results- No cloud and biodiesel completely dissolved in the methanol.

What can I say? It seems to be a resounding success and conversion testing of biodiesel will never be the Same

[Firedude]

Thanks for all the replies, have thought of a few other questions, for those running either B100 or mixing (and at what ratio) what kind of millage do you see, and any effects on power?
I have also read about the fuel lines "leaking" due to the Bio. in particular the one's from the lift pump to regulator and out from there? I replaced the "blue" lines on mine a while back when I replaced the lift pump went with replacement from Ford, again thanks for the replies

stay safe out there
Roy

[DarkShadowDiesel]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the replies, have thought of a few other questions, for those running either B100 or mixing (and at what ratio) what kind of millage do you see, and any effects on power?
I have also read about the fuel lines "leaking" due to the Bio. in particular the one's from the lift pump to regulator and out from there? I replaced the "blue" lines on mine a while back when I replaced the lift pump went with replacement from Ford, again thanks for the replies

stay safe out there
Roy

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm interested in this too... some people say they lose power, some gain? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[girlmark]

Usually it's fuel economy you hear this about. That's because biodiesel has a bit less energy in it than petroleum diesel does, but biodiesel is also 15% oxygen- so it ends up burning more completely (therefore you effectively get to use more of that fuel as energy than an equivalent diesel) and has a slightly different combustion characteristics than diesel (I can't remember if it's a faster or slower burn but the effect is a bit like changing your pump timing on an IDI diesel).

Anyway, this means that depending on your engine and your driving style and whether you're going up hills, towing, etc, you may see a change in fuel economy either for worse or not at all. I think this is also true of power but I'm rusty on what the variations are.

People aren't mis-reporting, it's just variable depending on the work your truck is doing.

[foxnard]

With an empty bed and not towing my 97' 350 gets the same highway mileage @ 60 to 70MPH as before B100. At higher speeds or with a heavy load I do see a slight decrease in mileage compared to D2. Have not accurately checked city mileage.Many, many variables to consider with B100, fuel quality the biggest. Different foodstocks produce Bio with varying Joules per gallon not to metion what the resturants do to the oil. My oil titrates between 1 and 2.5 . Temperature is huge as well. I run it in Florida where the fuel in the tank is 90F before I turn the key.