biofuel production in garage AND conversion kit???

[grannygear]

Been trying to read as much as possible on the thread before asking, but it gets a bit deep. Gonna at least wait until my warranty runs out before switching, but still trying to learn and plan ahead. So for now please give me opinions on this:

Instead of going one way or the other, if I were to make my own biofuel with a unit like the one at Home BioDiesel, and ALSO install a conversion kit (dbl tank w/heating unit) in the bed from Greasel (or maybe someone knows similar or better kit companies out there) then wouldn't I be double guaranteeing I'm getting extra clean WVO into my tank? I bought a Liquid Gold video and it was very informative on collection and filtering.

Is going both ways overkill? Seems to me it's like a win/win situation if I go with both and I don't have to worry about formulas of methol/glycerin/additives/yada... as long as I'm selective w/my source of WVO and do the recommended formula right. And yep, I know cold wx is a whole other subject.

[scbaguy]

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Is going both ways overkill? Seems to me it's like a win/win situation if I go with both and I don't have to worry about formulas of methol/glycerin/additives/yada... as long as I'm selective w/my source of WVO and do the recommended formula right. And yep, I know cold wx is a whole other subject.

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If you make Biodiesel, you WILL have to worry about formulas and methol/glycerin/additives/yada. You have to worry about them if you make the biodiesel at all.

Now, if you also want to have a heated tank and go the SVO route, thats great too.
But understand that even if you have both, you have to make the biodiesel correctly.

[BandE]

Since even if you convert the truck to run WVO you still need to start and stop on diesel if it's bio or #2 doesn't much matter. Bio would be cheaper and better all around.

Lots of good kits out there Plant Drive and FN74 come to mind.

[grannygear]

I realize it's important to understand the formulas and do them correctly, as I said in the post.

But I'm wondering if it's ridiculous, unnecessary or overkill to go both ways? Good/bad idea? Waste of money? Is the conversion kit a helpful way to go on the long trip?

[grannygear]

Thanks B_and_E. So are you saying bio doesn't need to be cleared out of the lines like wvo (even in cold wx)? I was thinking I'd run the bio through the conversion kit just for the extra filtration. Guess my ex-mechanic got me concerned because he said I'd have to run her around the block 30 times before all the veggie was out of the lines, even if it was bio. He's anti-veggie, just one reason he's my ex-mechanic. I figured if homemade bio (done right) is good, then extra filtration is better.

[BandE]

Well you can do a couple of things in colder weather. You can blend #2 say 50/50 which would be B50.

I'm not a real good source for Bio info I don't make it seems to me to be too much trouble. But All I've read seems to say you'd be good to about 30F with B80-100.

Other should chim in and get you the info you need

[Ctek]

If two or three gallons of diesel are mixed with 20 gallons of bio we have no cold weather concerns here in the north texas area. We are good down to at least 20 or so degrees.

Totally unnecessary to install a wvo system to run bio diesel.

Absolutely unnecessary to purge the lines of the biodiesel beck to regular diesel.

Titration and formula changes becomes less cumbersome when your oil is coming from the same places all the time and spot checks from time to time may be all that is needed.

Filter the bio well after washing and pour or pump it in.

Good luck.

[RickHredf250]

[ QUOTE ]
If two or three gallons of diesel are mixed with 20 gallons of bio we have no cold weather concerns here in the north texas area. We are good down to at least 20 or so degrees.

Totally unnecessary to install a wvo system to run bio diesel.

Absolutely unnecessary to purge the lines of the biodiesel beck to regular diesel.

Titration and formula changes becomes less cumbersome when your oil is coming from the same places all the time and spot checks from time to time may be all that is needed.

Filter the bio well after washing and pour or pump it in.

Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed!
I live in Nebraska so it does get cold.
B100 stright Biodiesel will start to cloud at about 37 deg. The clouding can lead to clogged filters.
Mixing 30% with petrol winter blend (60% #2 AND 40% #1 around here) gets yo well into the teens. Mixing it with kero at about 20-25% will get you below zereo. Soem of the cold weather thing is test and learn if you want to push it to the edge. I only had filter clog problems one time at -8 deg F. Truck started and ran fien for about 6 miles then filter clogged. I would guess I had abotu 30% BD in it.
Biodiesel done not have to be purged as does Straight Vege Oil. It can be run at 100% temp depended.
Making it, well cheaper than converting veh at around 1,000 bucks per. I have two diesel pickups so that would be 2k to convert them to burn SVO. Have less than 500 in BD processor and can run fuel in either one. My final cost per gallon of Bio right now is around .48 per gallon including Lye, methanol, water and electric to produce.
TO me BD is a much safer alternative fuel than SVO. Just have to take care to make quality fuel, which is not hard at all.
And titration, takes all of 20 seconds to do. but as mentioned good Waste oil sources are very helpful (no McDonalds or Burger King!)
Oh and stored BD does not attrack criters and bugs like stored stright veg oil!
Rick H...

[tpendergraft]

Sorry to hijack the thread but how are you getting biodiesel at $0.48/gal? I can't even get my methanol/koh costs/gallon less than $0.48 let alone all the other stuff like water, sewer, electricity, filters, and biocide? Please let me in on your secrets! Are you doing methanol recovery?

[RickHredf250]

Methanol at 1.78 per gallon, and lye at $98 for 50# includes shipping cost and good oil titrating at .5 grams per liter. Keeps the material cost down and 22% methanol.
I have yet to start the recovery, I suspect my cost will drop into the mid to low .40's per gallon then.
% yeild can have alot to do with it as well I have been aveerging 99-100%. Takes some doing to get the yield that high, but worth the effort.
Here is the break out....
Based on a 14 gallon batch at 100% yield. (this is an actual batch I made)
titration .5
amount of lye 238.48 grams @ .004321 cents per gram = $1.03
Amount of Methanol @ 22% 3.08 gallons @ 1.78 per gallon = $5.48
Over head water/electric @ .02 per gallon of fuel = .28
Batch total for materials and over head = $6.79 divided by yield of 14 gallons = .48 per gallon
I gotta check my water bill this month I may have to raise the overhead cost. With summer comming though, over may go downor off set the water cost increase beacuse I will not be pre heating the dang frozen WVO when I bring it home!
(I hope my math is right!) I use a software program that does ALL the computing and prints a batch receipe. It will also give you the split out for methanol and lye if you are using carboys and it takes more than 5 gallons of methanol/lye mix. And tracks all the hisotry with running totals and averages. Makes life EASY!
Before I started using bulk I know my cost was pushing a buck a gallon, but even at that, still beast 2.60 at the pump!
Rick H...

[macinco]

I think your daily driving habits would have a lot to do with if you install a WVO system complete with a heated fuel tank/pickup/heated lines etc.

You pretty much need to have your engine up to operating temp to safely run WVO (fuel runs through journals in the cylider heads and the temp of the oil will pretty much equal the head temp.

So, if you have a 10 mile (one way) commute (like me), you probably woun't be burning a lot of WVO. But if you have a 30+ mile commute or take a lot of long trips, or your truck never really cools down during the day.... I would be all over a WVO installation.

As far as a WVO conversion with bio..... I think it would be a great idea (use it depending on your driving needs). In the summer/warm, start up/shut down on bio but drive on WVO. (Purge times can be minimized with a smart setup). In the winter, start up/shut down on diesel (or a blend which won't gell) and run bio in the WVO system.

I could actually envision two (2) extra heated (etc) tanks plus the stock tank..... pump diesel in stock, B100 in extra tank 1 and WVO in extra tank 2).

You always have to be prepared for the the truck/tanks fully cooling off at night or at work or whatever, and bea able to sagely start up and warm up (some for bio) and all the way for WVO.

Lots of possibilities depending on you driving needs/habits.

And some of my B100 (made from my favorite chinese restaurant oil) doesn't cloud till 20 F and doesn;t gell till 15 F. So it all depends on the oil you use (and how you process it (pretreating with glycerine, adding used motor oil etc.)

To more directly answer your question, I think running bio in a WVO tank would be great for being able to run bio in temps colder that the bio will gell. That is the only bebefit (although not insignificant) I can see.

(Poor me and my single stock tank....LOL.. I used pump gas from middle of NOV until (roughly now).)

[ToddT]

Grannygear,

I like your thinking. I'm doing the same. I've run WVO in a heated second tank for over a year. I attended Girl Mark's biodiesel seminar and am gearing up for making bio as well. My plan is to start and stop on biodiesel, then switch to WVO for the longer hauls. Based on how many miles a tankful of diesel is taking me now I figure my total fuel cost per mile at less than a penny/mile.

My biodiesel raw cost is about $.65 as methanol is now $2.25 to $2.75/gallon in drums from the distributor. KOH is more like $.80/pound.

In the wintertime I'll go with essentially a B-50 or B-25 in the main tank and WVO in the second tank.

As for the biodiesel reactor you mentioned... save the money. Build an appleseed reactor out of a water heater and save $2500 in the process. Greasel is OK but you can do better reading the posts here and fabricating your own.

I used a 60 Gal. fuel tank/toolbox combo from Northern Tools but if I were to do it over again I'd buy a regular pickup bed toolbox and have a drop-in WVO tank fabricated for it.

Todd

[grannygear]

Thanks for all your responses, and support, giving me a lot to think about, much of which is like a combined class in calculus, chemistry and greek. But I just got started learning and I'll get there.

I appreciate your suggestions, although I don't think I'll be fabricating anything, at least til she's outta warranty, they won't cover anything that isn't factory or Ford approved as fuel either. Considering how much savings there is in the long haul 2500 for the converter maybe worth it. But then the bio-making kit is 3000 on top of that. I see there are other kit makers coming up to compare/compete with. It's not so much the tanks concern me as the gizmos, tubes, heating widjits and connectors, ok, I'm a mechanical bonehead, I specialize in living things.

Thanks B&E, Marky and ToddT for the support and encouragement. I realize there's a lot to consider about type of driving, wx, distances, etc... But mainly I'm so glad to see that it seems to be working for so many people without damage to their trucks. Marky, good to hear you get good oil from the chinese restaurant. Liquid Gold video said that's usually the best, if I remember right.

Yep, I figure if Rudolph intended the diesel to run on peanut oil then it should, and mine will. It's certainly worth the work and a joy to beat the fatboys outta my hard earned nickles. When the time comes I probably will go both ways just to increase the options. My driving varies from 20-30 miles of mtn roads per week (sometimes snow) to 120 miles freeway every other week, so going both ways should be the thing to do. Some guy in my county is making bio in his garage and selling it for 3.50 a gal!!! He's not gettin' my nickles either.

Off to do more research, thanks again... ~June

[cranetruck]

First off, I have an old military truck, which is easy to work on, so my particular "conversion" may not apply to all.
I decided that a dual tank system is the best way to go, with a main tank for biodiesel/VO and a smaller tank for regular diesel w/additives for really cold weather. The smaller tank is for starting/warming main tank/stopping.
Biodiesel clouds up even in not-so-cold weather and needs to be mixed with kero or diesel, but when it gets cold, say, 10F or below, then mixing won't help much either and you lose the advantage of using bio. Therefore the dual tank solution.
I run biodiesel/VO plus a small percentage of regular diesel in the main tank, which is heated by engine coolant. In the summer it's basically just the main tank since regular diesel isn't needed.
Since I'm not running on 100% veggie oil, the fuel temp doesn't have to be terribly high, I switch over at 60-70F.
With this arrangement, 10 to 20% straight veggie oil can always be mixed with the biodiesel in the main tank.

I'm currently working on the heating of some fuel lines and will probably also heat the primary filter/water separator.

My method of producing biodiesel is also based on minimum cost.
To begin with, I work with the restaurant and collect the majority of the used cooking oil hot. I transport it home in a steel trash can and it's still 265F when I get home.
At this time I mix it with cold oil until the temp is about 125F. In this fashion, I never need to heat the oil or separate out water/contaminents which is a big part of the expense if you get the oil from the grease dumpster.
The warm oil can now be processed by any means available, including manual stirring in a large plastic tub.