I'm not sure how running a different fuel would have such an effect on my engine oil. I do have to say the last couple times I changed my oil it's consistency was different, like more "stringy" for lack of a better term. Like molasses, but thick as regular oil. Hope it's a simple remedy, like veggie oil isn't hot enough, isn't filtered enough, etc.
Click on the SVO link and it should be the last pic.
more info… The engine was manufactured Sep. 98’ This truck is known as an early 99’. The engine has 170,800mi, most of which was on Mobil 1 oil. I installed the by-pass just prior to the “go-live” WVO conversion. I’ve been running veggie for around 10k miles. Uneventful operation so to speak. The truck runs almost as good as on #2, all the way down to the amount of smoke.
Some observed info on the system. I have temp sensors: in veggie tank, in Vormax Filter head, in manifold atop engine 4” from fuel ports on heads. Knowing these sensors work off change of resistance, I’m not sure how well these units are grounded and have been suspect of their readings. That said, here is how I’ve operated. Start on #2, travel ~5-7 miles (while observing sensor in the Vormax Filter looking for > 125F), switch to veggie, monitor sensor atop engine to ensure temp rises. At 10-15 miles I’ll be on my way to 150F. Under most circumstances I can maintain 150F or more barring cold rain, or just blowing cold. I still have not insulated any of the system. Although today when ambient temps tipped the mid 80’s, I was reading close to 180F have not seen either of those temps here till today. Finally I shutdown on #2 (travel 1 mile/Idle 1-2 minutes) That’s how I’ve arrived here.
Now if you’ve read the report and wondered about the comments, I have no idea why the inference was made about changing from veggie oil to oil. I spoke to Ryan on the other poor report (next to last report) and thoroughly explained what was going on. After speaking with a different tech today (the one who analyzed my sample) I realized she was under the impression I was using veggie in stead of engine oil (give me a break!) Anyway that doesn’t change the reports results.
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Early 99' Upgraded to 99.5' F250 XLT SWB PSD, 4x4, GPT38, EBPV Delete, Perf Friction 2-pcs rotors, 4" turbo back exh, Ford AIS, 6leaker OEM cooler, Htr Core by pass valve, Synthetic every fluid (Mobil), Detroit LOCKER, BTS, Lunar Autometer gauges, DP-F6C, 235k mi SVO ConversionUpdated SVO stuff
A couple of things come to mind right off. The WVO runs down the cylinder walls and does contaminate your oil over time--much the same as diesel does and hence the rating of % diesel fuel. For running mostly on WVO and having a .5% rating it is telling me that you must be having some ring/wall cylinder problems allowing more then the usual amount of fuel int your engine oil. That rating is awfully high especially with the low hours on the oil. Unless that engine idles lots and lots I would concentrate there. Perhaps doing a compression test will confirm or eliminate that as a possiblity. Your high silicon numbers also tend to lead me to beleive that you are getting dirt into your engine and oil. Check your air filter for leaks and the best test is to wipe your finger in the snokel part of the tube AFTER the air filter and see if you can get any dirt on your finger or if there is any visible difference in the area you just wiped in the snorkel. If you are getting dirt your air filter is not working properly or sealed correctly and could of killed your rings/cylinder walls allowing high wear to take place.
Now another option is that the the WVO (that gets by the rings)is acting as a cleaning agent in the engine and is now removing previously lodged contaminents from sludgy oil deposits withing the engine. With that many miles that is another possiblity. Running a solvent flush and or a course of Auto-rx (auto-rx.com) is another possiblity.
Hope this gives you some things to think about.
T
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2000 CC SRW 6 spd silver, BB turbo, AFE filter cone, intank mod, 4" Magnaflow SS exhaust, DP tuner 6 position chip, Custom Bypass filtering, currently down awaiting newer injectors, Bridgestone Revo's, was running on WVO
1999 Early Lariat CC SRW Green/Brown with BB turbo and newer intake, auto with custom built trans and 5r110 TC, late model radiator and soon to be installed 6.0 trans cooler, AFE intake filter cone, 4" Aluminized exhaust, rotella ELC coolant,DP tuner 3 position chip,Bridgestone Revo's.
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A couple of things come to mind right off. The WVO runs down the cylinder walls and does contaminate your oil over time--much the same as diesel does and hence the rating of % diesel fuel. For running mostly on WVO and having a .5% rating it is telling me that you must be having some ring/wall cylinder problems allowing more then the usual amount of fuel int your engine oil. That rating is awfully high especially with the low hours on the oil. Unless that engine idles lots and lots I would concentrate there. Perhaps doing a compression test will confirm or eliminate that as a possiblity. Your high silicon numbers also tend to lead me to beleive that you are getting dirt into your engine and oil. Check your air filter for leaks and the best test is to wipe your finger in the snokel part of the tube AFTER the air filter and see if you can get any dirt on your finger or if there is any visible difference in the area you just wiped in the snorkel. If you are getting dirt your air filter is not working properly or sealed correctly and could of killed your rings/cylinder walls allowing high wear to take place.
Now another option is that the the WVO (that gets by the rings)is acting as a cleaning agent in the engine and is now removing previously lodged contaminents from sludgy oil deposits withing the engine. With that many miles that is another possiblity. Running a solvent flush and or a course of Auto-rx (auto-rx.com) is another possiblity.
Tony- great suggestions!! CPU- I sent oyu an email, but there is not much to it, just comparing our reports. Sometimes I hate MSN groups. I can't figure out how to post it so that you can see it without having to have an MSN account. Anyway, Essentially in a nutshell I have also noticed a significant rise in my IRON, and a little in my copper/lead, I believe as a result of the increased iron. However this did not happen until 3 oild cahnges after I started using WVO. And immedialtely after my last oil change from which the latest report was generated, my turbo started going out. There was enough shaft play to allow the blades to contact the housing [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] Normally that would have been good, I would have just replaced it with an H2E or BB. but I was on my way out the door. In fact Sagebel had to replace it for me with his old stock one.(Thanks [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]). Anyway, I am hoping that my increased numbers were results of the Turbo attempting to exit this life. I have done 4 blackstones, and missed one report which happened to be my first change with running WVO. Since replacing the turbo, I have replaced the Wastegate bypass, and removed the EVO. Still waiting to get enough mileage after new turbo to see if that was the problem.
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A couple of things come to mind right off. The WVO runs down the cylinder walls and does contaminate your oil over time--much the same as diesel does and hence the rating of % diesel fuel. For running mostly on WVO and having a .5% rating it is telling me that you must be having some ring/wall cylinder problems allowing more then the usual amount of fuel int your engine oil. That rating is awfully high especially with the low hours on the oil. Unless that engine idles lots and lots I would concentrate there. Perhaps doing a compression test will confirm or eliminate that as a possiblity. Your high silicon numbers also tend to lead me to beleive that you are getting dirt into your engine and oil. Check your air filter for leaks and the best test is to wipe your finger in the snokel part of the tube AFTER the air filter and see if you can get any dirt on your finger or if there is any visible difference in the area you just wiped in the snorkel. If you are getting dirt your air filter is not working properly or sealed correctly and could of killed your rings/cylinder walls allowing high wear to take place.
Now another option is that the the WVO (that gets by the rings)is acting as a cleaning agent in the engine and is now removing previously lodged contaminents from sludgy oil deposits withing the engine. With that many miles that is another possiblity. Running a solvent flush and or a course of Auto-rx (auto-rx.com) is another possiblity.
I've been wondering about running synthetics and oil dilution due to running veggie. Very interesting. I had never thought about how the veggie may be acting as a solvent to break loose debris inside the engine as we see it do in the fuel system. So, rather than creating engine wear due to a loss of lubrication, it may be cleaning the engine?
I run Amsoil and have the dual filter setup. I've been considering going back to a Rotella dino lube in order to periodically remove any veggie that has gotten into the bottom end. CPUneck, your test results and whatever resolution you determine will be very important for my truck maintenance. Good luck, though I wish I had some technical input to help.
Have you been changing the Mobil One on a regular basis or doing the extended change interval route? My plan was to run Amsoil until oil analysis indicated a need to change. I can't afford to change out a synthetic every 3000 or 5000 miles.
I checked out the Auto-rx site... very interesting. Anybody else with experience with this product in a PSD? This would be another reason to go to the finer filtration offered by the Amsoil dual filter system (or comparable product).
The question remains... are these test results indicating increased wear or increased cleaning?
Good luck and please keep us posted.
Todd
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2002 F-250 Lariat, PSD, CC, short bed, 3.73, auto tranny, Line-X bed liner, AFE Filter, HX crossover, intake heater delete, Evans NGC+, Dieselsite 203 thermostat, coolant filter, Amsoil by-pass filter, Schaeffer's synthetic blend tranny fluid, Bob Riley's tranny filter, Velvet Ride shackles, Rancho 9000 shocks with in-cab adjustment, 60 gallon aux tank for burning heated WVO, burning veggie since fall of '04.
Well we may soon find out a LOT of useful information. Yesterday I was in search of a lab with a mass spectrometer to REALLY identify what's in my oil. Found a guy waiting for the 5 o' clock bell and he went the distance for me. Gave me contact information to a lab that this guys company uses all the time for sophisticated analysis. Even gave me the Dr.'s name (yep, he's a real scientist) I called the fellow and even though he was VERY busy, he entertained my inquision.
He said he could certainly tell me how much veggie was in my oil, but wouldn't use the MS. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] I didn't even ask how, but got just a couple more minutes to bend his ear so I gave him the abridged story of bearing wear etc. I explained most of the places that deal with automotive stuff hasn't a clue about veggie, he interrupted to state quite contrary, he knew a GREAT deal about veggie and bio-D [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] Jack-pot! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img] Now he's kinda interested so asked if I could send the Blackstone report with as much detailed backround as I can, he'll look it over and let me know what I should do next! I'm pumped. We potentialy have the ability to learn some unbiased, tested facts concerning WVO/Bio and how it reacts with metal, oil, pressure, etc. I'll keep updates coming. Interesting note, he asked what kind of veggie it was and I said I didn't know and that I also didn't test the Ph levels, he said "I don't care about that, it won't matter." hmm. I'll further explore that. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img]
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Early 99' Upgraded to 99.5' F250 XLT SWB PSD, 4x4, GPT38, EBPV Delete, Perf Friction 2-pcs rotors, 4" turbo back exh, Ford AIS, 6leaker OEM cooler, Htr Core by pass valve, Synthetic every fluid (Mobil), Detroit LOCKER, BTS, Lunar Autometer gauges, DP-F6C, 235k mi SVO ConversionUpdated SVO stuff
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CPUNECK wrote: We potentialy have the ability to learn some unbiased, tested facts concerning WVO/Bio and how it reacts with metal, oil, pressure, etc. I'll keep updates coming. Interesting note, he asked what kind of veggie it was and I said I didn't know and that I also didn't test the Ph levels, he said "I don't care about that, it won't matter." hmm. I'll further explore that.
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Ok well it would be nice to know if it is cleaning up the engine or in fact there is a bit more wear. So lets say worse case our 300-400 thousand mile engines are now only good 200 thousand, but we will spend $30,000 less on fuel in that time period.
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1997 4x4 f250 psd with full Banks Powerpack, turbo, intercooler,large exhaust pipe. Fordnut74 WVO conversion! 203 degree T-stat. BTS-transmission with super duty cooler. 60 gallon aux tank for burning WVO
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I've been wondering about running synthetics and oil dilution due to running veggie. Very interesting. I had never thought about how the veggie may be acting as a solvent to break loose debris inside the engine as we see it do in the fuel system. So, rather than creating engine wear due to a loss of lubrication, it may be cleaning the engine?
I run Amsoil and have the dual filter setup. I've been considering going back to a Rotella dino lube in order to periodically remove any veggie that has gotten into the bottom end. CPUneck, your test results and whatever resolution you determine will be very important for my truck maintenance. Good luck, though I wish I had some technical input to help.
Have you been changing the Mobil One on a regular basis or doing the extended change interval route? My plan was to run Amsoil until oil analysis indicated a need to change. I can't afford to change out a synthetic every 3000 or 5000 miles.
I checked out the Auto-rx site... very interesting. Anybody else with experience with this product in a PSD? This would be another reason to go to the finer filtration offered by the Amsoil dual filter system (or comparable product).
The question remains... are these test results indicating increased wear or increased cleaning?
Good luck and please keep us posted.
Todd
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I have done the Auto-RX treatment on my PSD, my Cummins N14, and currently my Z28. As far as my PSD is concerned, one thing that has improved is that before Auto-RX, i would have low ICP pressure codes, now after Auto-RX ICP codes are history and my truck has no problem maintaining high pressure oil pressure. We think it has achieved this by cleaning the gunk out of the IPR. This stuff is no snake oil and comes highly recommended over at the BITOG forums. This stuff is great for removing deposits out of the piston ring lands and most see a marked improvemnt in compression after the clean and rinse phases.
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A couple of things come to mind right off. The WVO runs down the cylinder walls and does contaminate your oil over time--much the same as diesel does and hence the rating of % diesel fuel. For running mostly on WVO and having a .5% rating it is telling me that you must be having some ring/wall cylinder problems allowing more then the usual amount of fuel int your engine oil. That rating is awfully high especially with the low hours on the oil. Unless that engine idles lots and lots I would concentrate there. Perhaps doing a compression test will confirm or eliminate that as a possiblity. Your high silicon numbers also tend to lead me to beleive that you are getting dirt into your engine and oil. Check your air filter for leaks and the best test is to wipe your finger in the snokel part of the tube AFTER the air filter and see if you can get any dirt on your finger or if there is any visible difference in the area you just wiped in the snorkel. If you are getting dirt your air filter is not working properly or sealed correctly and could of killed your rings/cylinder walls allowing high wear to take place.
Now another option is that the the WVO (that gets by the rings)is acting as a cleaning agent in the engine and is now removing previously lodged contaminents from sludgy oil deposits withing the engine. With that many miles that is another possiblity. Running a solvent flush and or a course of Auto-rx (auto-rx.com) is another possiblity.
I am not as far along on the wvo/biodiesel usage as most of you guys, but I've been reading a lot. WVO has FFA's (free fatty acids). According to Girl Mark, you can't measure the pH in WVO directly using pH paper or phenol red without doing titration. The problem is that the acids will wear the metal components of the engine faster than normal. There's a study done in Thailand that measured the wear of two identical engines running side-by-side...one with dino and the other with palm oil. Before and after the test, compression rings were weighed. The veg oil engine had significantly more metal loss than the dino diesel engine. Some people won't care if they can save a lot more on diesel than it costs to replace an engine early.
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If you don't have anything to do, get a used diesel and a camper!
Truck 1: 1985 F350 dually 4WD 6.9 diesel crew cab auto with 83k original miles. C6 trans, 4.10 rear end. Mods are Banks Turbo, US Gear overdrive, 45gal rear tank, hydroboost brakes, additional leaf springs all around, Hellwig airbags, rear sway bar, GM glowplug controller, fuel Koalescer. 235/85 R16 Michelin XB Rib radials. 11ft.6in Vacationeer cabover camper, TorkLift tiedowns.
Truck 2: 1988 F250 7.3, C6 auto, 2WD w/3.55 limited slip rear axle, Banks Sidewinder Turbo, Gear Vendors overdrive, Utility box, hydraulic lift gate, lumber rack.
Auto: 1987 MBZ 300D Turbo 3.0 Liter 6 cylinder engine. 205K miles. Working on all the "little things" that previous owner neglected. Putting in wvo tank.
The acids of the veggie that gets into the oil is neutralized by the the TBN of the oil. These adds that boost the TBN in the oil are alkaline and neutralize any acids formed. Most acids are combustion byproducts in a diesel running engine. A high tested TBN is a good indication of not much acids in the oil.
T
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2000 CC SRW 6 spd silver, BB turbo, AFE filter cone, intank mod, 4" Magnaflow SS exhaust, DP tuner 6 position chip, Custom Bypass filtering, currently down awaiting newer injectors, Bridgestone Revo's, was running on WVO
1999 Early Lariat CC SRW Green/Brown with BB turbo and newer intake, auto with custom built trans and 5r110 TC, late model radiator and soon to be installed 6.0 trans cooler, AFE intake filter cone, 4" Aluminized exhaust, rotella ELC coolant,DP tuner 3 position chip,Bridgestone Revo's.
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OK...I give up...what's TBN? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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TBN is the Acronym for Total Base Number. It essentially is the amount of acid fighting strength that is available in the oil. Generically speaking per high school science class, "Bases" neutralize Acids.
Auto-RX is a great product if you're running dino oil. If you run a synthetic with Ester in the base, then Auto-RX won't likely add any cleaning, as it's also based on an Ester synthetic. Esters are natural cleaners, in fact thats why Bio-Diesel makes such a good solvent. this learned from BITOG BTW
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