Diy setup for running WVO in 87 F350 w/6.9

[dansworld77]

Hello everyone,
I'm looking at a 1987 F350 chassis-cab 6.9l with a banks turbo, with the intention of converting to run on WVO. Now I'm fairly mechanically adept, as in I can do most auto maintenance and repair that doesn't involve getting inside the engine block (never had anyone to teach me what's in there, and scared to break something trying that I can't afford to have fixed), but since this will be my first diesel I wish to tap into the wealth of experience and knowledge available here on this forum. So let me begin...

My choice of a ford is for the following reasons:
1. They're what I know. I'm familiar with ford trucks and like them (there's a reason they are best-sellers).

2. The features. I really want the crew cab, and I figure the built-in dual tanks will simplify a lot of the conversion process (though I intend to add an auxiliary tank anyway. A huge range will make long trips on WVO possible)

3. It's what I can afford. A Cummins might be the better diesel engine, but there aren't nearly so many out there and they tend to cost more for equivalent size/features.

That out of the way, I have some questions about the conversion and what I'll need that I'm hoping some of you fine folks might be able to answer. As I'm not a rich man I am trying to keep my costs down and avoid wasting money, but I also want to make sure that I have the parts I need to do the job right.

So far, this is what I think I'll need to get a dual tank ford driving around for peanuts (almost literally lol)

1. Flat plate heat exchanger (I figured a 40 plate would be best, correct me if I'm wrong please)

2. Hot fox heated tank uptake (necessity, or just a good idea?)

3. Secondary lift pump (I've read the "facet" brand is a good option for the cost. True?)

4 & 5. Heated fuel filter and sedimenter (For simplicities sake I'm leaning towards 12v for these two, please let me know if that's a bad idea. Also, these appear to be separate units, and not cheap ones, if there is a better way than the $150 a piece jobs I found on eBay then please steer me in the right direction).

6. Extra coolant and fuel lines (I heard Pex is a viable and inexpensive option for both. True, false?)

7. Some way of splicing into the cooling system to feed it to the heat exchanger and the tank/fuel uptake heater. Suggestions?

8. Various valves, clamps, and splitters to connect everything.

I'm assuming (course we all know what happens when we assume) that I shouldn't need a separate tank and pollack valve system since the vehicle I'm looking at is already dual tank, though I expect to have to relocate the pollack valve to right before the injection pump to avoid excess mixing of diesel and WVO in the wrong tanks. I intend to loop the return lines, so hopefully that will keep mixing to a minimum.

I also would like to eventually get a block heater of some sort, and am leaning towards the tank type that heat and pump the coolant since that would heat up both my engine and my veggie lines. Good idea, bad?

Is there anything else I'll need to get this project off the ground? I'd prefer not to have the system all tore apart only to discover I'll need $200 dollars in more parts that I won't be able to afford for another month.

Thank you all in advance for your help and guidance in this matter.

[IDIABUSE]

Most WVO guys convert to WMO cause it is easier all around.
I never tried WVO but Have been burning WMO 1000s of miles.


Javier

[dansworld77]

I thought about doing WMO, but I had concerns about the environmental impact. Plus I was considering producing excess cleaned/dewatered WVO for sale for other folks in my area who are doing the same thing. In my area there's already a co-op that buys their cleaned veggie oil from a town fifty miles away, and I'm hoping to make a few extra bucks supplying it to them from local sources.

[F250Truckin]

dan - You should have no trouble getting answers to your questions as soon as everybody gets back from where ever they went for Christmas. There are some really knowledgable folks here who are very generous with their time to help you.

I'm a WMO guy so I'm not really a great help.

[dansworld77]

Thank you Jerry, I kind of expected it to be slow over the holidays.

I'm actually not entirely opposed to doing WMO (or maybe both? Is that possible? Couldn't hurt to have a true multi-fuel setup for the rig so I'm prepared for any eventuality such as political bs, zombie apocalypse, meteorite strike, etc), but I've done a lot less research into it. Is it an easier conversion? What about filtering/dewatering it before putting it in the tank, can I rig up a centrifuge for both and just clean it in between? I read a lot of these forums before I started asking questions, but I'm sure I missed some stuff along the way, so feel free to teach me since that's what I'm here for.

[F250Truckin]

You cannot do WMO and WVO both. They will not work in the same engine. When they get together they form gum which blocks up your entire fuel system. When they burn, it turns into something like porcelain in the cylinders.

There is much more known about burning WVO than there is WMO because some folks have been burning it for a long time and engines that run on it on a regular basis (properly cleaned product) tend to have great power and run forever. I have no access to WVO or at least I have not developed sources. You need a two tank system that you can purge before shutdown so that you always start on pure D2 and switch to WVO once the engine is at operating temp. This is easy when you have set your system up correctly. Your current setup will require some modification to get the ability to purge done right. Airfooter and others have done this for years and will give you plenty of good info once back on line.

Do a search of airfooter posts and you will have lots of your questions answered before going any further.

[simone0414]

I am not familiar with your engine but I can offer a few tips that will help.

If your stock diesel tanks are made of steel you cannot use them for veg. Mild steel will cause polymerization. People do use pex lines but I do not recommend them. Aluminum is much better. Easy to bend( to a point) & much better for heat transfer. Tube in hose is the best setup for fuel lines IMHO. Cheap & easy to make. Do NOT use the Pollack switching valve. It is crap. Use the Hydraforce type valves or I have heard good things about Greasecars switching valves. A 40 plate HE is a bit overkill but will work fine. I have a 20 plate which gives me all the heat needed. Unless you live in the tropics a in tank HE is necessary. I use the Hotfox & it works great.

Metals that work well with VO: Aluminum, black iron, stainless.
Metals that don't work with VO: Galvinized, Copper, steel. They all speed up the polymerization process.

First thing though I have to ask have you locked down at least one source of VO? That is the most important step. Don't spend a cent until you have.

Also how to do plan on cleaning/dewatering your oil?? I highly recommend using a open bowl type centrifuge. You can spend alot of money on one or do what I did & get yourself an ACME Juicerator & modify it. Cost me about a hundred bucks to buy & modify. I have 80k miles on my truck & all my oil was processed with this little unit.

Hope this helps. Airfooter will give you more info when he sees this. He's forgot more about VO then I know.

[dansworld77]

Jerry and Simone, thank you both for the info. I'll definitely be looking up Airfooter's threads upon your recommendation. As it stands I have a couple of options for veggie oil. The first would be easy, a shop in the local area actually does conversions (overpriced ones though, when I talked to him about it he said $3500-$5000 to do an old idi ford, which is like two or three times what those cost to purchase on the current market), and he sells pre-filtered and de-watered veggie oil for half the cost of diesel. At the very least even if my own filtering efforts fail that would be an option for me. I also am friends with a couple restaurant managers in the area who said they'd be glad to give me oil once I was set up to take it.

I am definitely most interested in using a centrifuge, the sock filters and such just seem rather half@$$ed to me, no offense to those who've had success with them. The Juicerater is definitely what I'm leaning towards as well. If I had money pouring out of my ears I probably wouldn't even worry about converting a vehicle, so since I'm obviously not looking to blow cash where I don't need to I'll pass on the $1000 and up centrifuges that are out there and stick with the cheaper option.

As for running both WVO and WMO, I had read about them reacting if kept in the same tank before, but was thinking more along the lines of running parallel fuel systems. If they never mixed except for right before hitting the engine (maybe with a d2 purge in between) would that still lead to issues? I understand that would mean doing what is basically dual conversions on the same vehicle, so it's not something I'd be doing right off the bat, but I am curious about it.

One last question: I'm familiar with tube in hose in principle, but where do you go to buy the connectors? Almost all the other parts out there that I could use I've been able to locate online, but those seem to be beyond my google-fu. (I was a bit shocked by what came up when I searched "two into one" I must admit. That's the internet for you I guess lol)

[F250Truckin]

Dan - There is a good pic of tube in a tube in a posting by airfooter in a thread about building a wvo system for a 7.3 PSD. It is couple of pages back, but it has a lot of information you need as does the thread on building a two tank system.

[IDIABUSE]

Originally Posted by dansworld77

I thought about doing WMO, but I had concerns about the environmental impact. Plus I was considering producing excess cleaned/dewatered WVO for sale for other folks in my area who are doing the same thing. In my area there's already a co-op that buys their cleaned veggie oil from a town fifty miles away, and I'm hoping to make a few extra bucks supplying it to them from local sources.

Every ship that leaves port uses heavy fuel oil,AKA WMO
If every fuel station sold WVO then the FED would have lost billions in revenue, there is your enviromental impact.

Whatever is easier for you, go with it.

Javier

[dansworld77]

I'm getting the impression that I should begin to worship at the church of airfooter lol. Well I'm home for the evening now, so time to read up on what he's got to say. Can't go wrong when I'm learning from the guy that the pros all listen to.

[dansworld77]

OK, so I've been reading the gospel of airfooter. That guy really does know his stuff! The hih setup is finally clear to me, and now I'm thinking that with enough of that I might be able to get away without some of these overpriced specialty pieces. The heated filter and sedimenter in particular look like items I could more cheaply fab myself by running a coil of coolant line around off the shelf units. The fphe would make a great addition, but at a hundred bucks a pop I would prefer to just create a coil of hih so the WVO has more time to heat up before hitting the injection pump. If I have trouble getting things up to temp I can always add a fphe later on. These savings will go a long way towards letting me add things like dedicated three way valves and a couple temperature gauges while still staying within my budget.

I'm still a little confused by how the fuel return lines can be dead-headed to feed back into the fuel feed line instead of the tank. Do I need a one-way valve of some sort to keep it from just back flowing into the tank? Do I splice it in ahead of or behind the auxiliary pump?

[F250Truckin]

When you get all that figured out, let me know. I have the X tank already, but have had too many things ahead of it to start trying to put it together. When you get all this up and running, I will check in with you to see how to make it all work.

[dansworld77]

Lo and behold, who should I bump into yesterday afternoon but the guy who runs the local WVO conversion shop here in my home town (Envirofuel, of Corvallis Oregon). I asked him a few questions and he was really nice and offered to go over my diy design with me to make sure I wasn't missing anything I needed to make it all work.

He did say he preferred Dodge Cummins for the conversion, but that if I was adamant about ford that they have a couple quirks to be aware of. Apparently the injection pumps (counterintuitively) don't actually like really high heat. I guess his wife's ford was just eating up injection pumps when he first converted it, and he discovered that it was because of the way they're built. Due to their aluminum casing and steel core expanding differentially when heated he's found the idi fords actually have their sweet spot down at about 140°, which would be a lot easier to achieve.

Anyway, that's what he told me. Any of the pros on here want to weigh in?

[F250Truckin]

Interesting information and another good reason for all of us to share and learn from each other.