A good reason to run B100 over SVO

[VD350]

[ QUOTE ]
The IDI 6.9 is very tolerant of fuel quality. I joke with people saying that my truck could run on boiled horse pee and not know the difference.

WVO can kill the IP on the 6.9 IDI engine if it's run too cold, I have heard of instances of poorly warmed WVO causing the input shaft on the IP to snap due to excessive shaft stress.

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is something people need to look at when doing WVO, Not all engines are made the same and tolerate the same fuels. An IDI can be abused fuel wise much more than a high pressure fuel system IMO, and it doesn't even have to be a 6.9l or a 7.3 IDI. Just between my father's IDI jetta and my 6.9l you could see the difference just in start ups, the 6.9 after a few cranks would start on WVO but the Jetta would need several sessions to start (and he has a 12v pump to help prime the system too). But the bottom of the quote shows that you cant push them to the breaking point and expect them to run flawlessly.

Because of this I went to running straight Bio today as a matter of fact. Thinner which makes it easier on the IP, more combustable, and supposedly easier on injectors and valves but I think that all has to do with heat pertaining to WVO.

[Atmus]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok maybe I am missing something here but how does WVO cause turbo damage, cylinder scruffing, and intake valve build up on a direct injection system. I am new to BD and don't want to run WVO but I don't think the damage to that engine is due to WVO. I think he had poor air filtration that took out his turbo and damaged the piston and cylinder and as for the build up on the intake valve a poorly operating CCV system. I don't really know but that damage doesn't seem to jive with a WVO issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

For whatever reason, his pistons and cylinders got screwed up. Water in the fuel doing what fuel does not and destroying the pistons, fatty acids or french fries in the fuel damaging the injectors and causing incomplete combustion, building up on the valves and cylinder walls, insufficiently heated fuel contributing to both problems, wrecking his compression, allowing WVO into the crankcase where the turbo draws from (assuming that is how VW's work), the tainted oil not lubing the turbo correctly, thus killing it.

Sounds like this guy hit the trifecta of screwing your engine over.

I don't know what kit that guy used, but I would bet money that it is one of those ones that claims you can dump raw cubbies into it and that it will filter it itself. There's a reason I didn't go with one of those kits.

[yowmemperor]

I cant even begin to blame anything else when the turbo fins look like that. metal shards caused that scoring im sure.

[bkhickers]

That turbo damage does not look like WVO damage. You can plainly see that somthing got sucked into the turbo, also, how could WVO even damage the intake compressor side of a trubo? Those DTI's are very known for carbon buildup in the intake, I have even seen such a mass amount of buildup that the size of the intake runners are that of a pea! I have seen twice what happens when small pieces break off and get sucked into the engine, looks kinda like those pics. The key is Quality oil, proper setteling, proper filtering, and proper heat. the people that just want to do this without reserch and understanding will get burned, but I would not blame that on the WVO.
"and thats all I got to say about that"

[VD350]

The only thing that i think could do that to the turbo is not WVo but the little pieces of piston he is missing, they passed through hitting the impeller and such on the way out. The only way you could contribute that to WVO is an extreme wet stacking that created a big boom when it finally ignited. I'm more inclined to think he made his EGTs hit the roof OR he had some water get into his fuel and since water doesnt compress it found a new way out.

[yowmemperor]

Diesel Commandment #8

"Thou shalt not place rocks, metal shards, or other foriegn objects into intake."

Filters also have a purpose, use them!

[luckuslucas]

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that i think could do that to the turbo is not WVo but the little pieces of piston he is missing, they passed through hitting the impeller and such on the way out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except that in both instances, the damage is on the intake compressor wheel, not the exhaust side. The turbo on my bus is as clean as it was the day I converted it, and we've run some nasty WVO through it.

[westvandude]

Yes, the TDI's are really bad for intake coking... hot dry EGR combining with cool dry CCV. Solved this problem on my bro-in-law's with a MANN Pro-vent kit. About $150usd. Pulls the moisture out of the CCV before sucking it into the motor. That's half this guy's problem.

Didn't think it was ever a good idea to run WVO in the TDI motors due to the higher injection pressures and fine nozzles.

[VD350]

Something interesting I found out. We bought a 2000 VW Beetle about 4 weeks ago, turns out that until 2003 they were Injection pump not computer controlled/high injection BS even thought they are Stamped TDI (take the TDI cover off and there is the IP). In principle they havent changed the design between my dad's '85 jetta and this 2000, just added a turbo. Loves sucking on Bio and hauls ass [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[westvandude]

Yes, you are right, it is an injection distributor pump but the computer controls the injection parameters. Not so on the previous models. Therefore the TDI name.

BTW, you think it hauls ass now, get a chip tune. Take a peek at http://rocketchip.com/ , in my opinion one of the best tuners. Go with an RC1 or RC2 program. That and next size up nozzles. If it's a 5-spd you'll be looking at a stronger clutch for anything over RC2, typically VR6 clutch.

While you're at it, get that pro-vent CCV filter. Pulling off the intake manifold and exhaust cooler are not fun, even on a Golf, getting at those pieces on the Beetle is even worse.

If you need more info on nozzles or anything just PM me.

[VD350]

I would love to tune this sucker since It bolts past my truck on hills as it is, but its my step mom's daily driver so no mods. Maybe one day

[F350_6]

This is why you only see B5 approvals from engine manufacturer's. WVO can be used with no issues at all, but as with any home brew kit, they don't want to warranty anything that doesn't have the proper quality controls.

You would think cheap fuel would cause people to put forth the time & effort to do things right. But I'm guessing someone cut some corners here.

[Spencnaz]

I sincerely doubt that any engine manufacturer is going to warranty their engine to run WVO. You say there are no issues with running WVO, this could not be further from the truth.

While it can be done and many do use it, there are some pretty significant modifications to the fuel system for a WVO system to run properly for many thousands of miles.

Homebrewers are very scrupulous about biodiesel quality. I know I am. IF they aren't then they're going to get a very expensive education in fuel quality.

The same thing goes for veggie oil conversions. As you are no doubt aware, F350_6, you can't just dump some veggie oil in the tank and hope for the best. Sure, it can be done in an emergency, but it's not recommended.

Plus, what about all the glycerin, free fatty acids and particulates that pass through the filtration media? I for one didn't want that stuff going through a set of injectors and injector pump no matter how 'tolerant' my old 6.9 is.

Consider this as well: when someone is getting started in WVO or biodiesel they are all excited to make a fuel that is so inexpensive and green than the fuels bought at the pump. Due to this excitement, people rush things, make poor decisions and otherwise don't keep track of what they are doing when starting out on biodiesel. Consequently, the fuel they put in there leads to engine problems. 99% of diesel problems can be related to fuel or fuel quality whether WVO or biodiesel.

When I show people how to make biodiesel, I tell them you only get out of it what you put into it. If you don't take the time to do things 'by the book' as it were, you're going to have inconsistent and often very poor results.

The illustration I like to use is when you bake a cake, you make sure that for the cake to be nice and tasty, you follow the recipe to the letter. Making biodiesel is no different.

Sadly, commericial suppliers cannot or do not meet the quality standards set either because they get rushed sending out the next 25,000 gallon tanker car or they scrimp on quality to improve their profit margins. There is going to be a period of turbulence in the biodiesel industry for a while for the commercial supplier. Over time, the high quality companies will prevail and those who are shoddy or lax in their quality control will be out of business.

And while biodiesel is a well-verified and studied fuel, until biodiesel quality standards are met, OEMs are not going to warranty their engines to burn the stuff above B5. I think John Deere is far more progressive in this aspect, and I seem to remember them approving at least B20 in a past issue of Diesel Progress.

In conclusion, there is actually too much information about biodiesel and WVO usage. However, the one site that I do recommend to everyone interested in biodiesel is http://www.biodieselcommunity.org. There, you will find concise and very accurate first-hand accounts and instructions about biodiesel. Its manufacture, usage and safety are all listed there.

[Abbey]

Both bio. & wvo have there problems and both of the problems are man made ( stupidity ). All you have to do to see this is read how some people are filtering their wvo and how they are making their Bio. A lot of people are just too cheap are too lazy to do it right!