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Bio-Diesel and Alternative Fuels Discussion of biodiesel (homegrown or store bought) and other alternative fuels for diesel-powered vehicles.

       
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Old 07-06-2004, 11:18 AM   #1 (permalink)
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gtl

anyone heard anything about gtl?

its made by shell in cooperation with toyota. it has zero sulfur and in the article i read can be used in any diesel.
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Old 07-07-2004, 06:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: gtl

Ok, I'll give and be the guinea pig...

What goes gtl stand for?

On Edit: I found some info on the web about it. Still don't know where you could actually get some though.
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Old 07-07-2004, 10:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: gtl

TOKYO -- Toyota Motor Corp. (7203.TO) and Royal Dutch/Shell Group will soon launch a joint trial of environmentally friendly vehicles using a new fuel developed by Shell.

Toyota and Shell Gas & Power, a Royal Dutch/Shell Group company, said Tuesday they will trial ten of Toyota 's Avensis models equipped with the automaker's advanced clean diesel engine technology using gas-to-liquid, a new fuel based on natural gas developed by Shell.

The trial reflects global car and energy companies' stepped-up efforts to develop fuel-cell vehicles, gasoline-electric hybrid engines and other types of vehicles with ultra-low gas emission engines as the issue of global warming spurs interest in "green" technology.

Shell's GTL is a clean synthetic fuel derived from gas. It's cost effective and virtually free of sulfur, the company says. GTL, which can be used in existing diesel-engine vehicles, is gaining attention as a next-generation clean fuel.

Toyota is the maker of the world's first mass-produced gasoline-electric hybrid car, the Prius, which has advanced diesel technology that reduces both particulate and nitrogen oxide in diesel exhaust gas.

Under the trial, the GTL-fueled cars will be driven in the London area by people from the British Red Cross, Shelter, Guy's and St Thomas's Hospital Trust and the Energy Saving Trust. Over the next three months, these organizations will use the cars in their fund-raising events, and in providing help to the homeless or ill that may need hospital care.

More than 40% of vehicles in Europe are diesel cars, which could be replaced by GTL vehicles in the future.

Demand for GTL may grow in Japan as well. Tokyo and other major cities in Japan introduced stricter diesel engine gas emissions regulations last year.
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Old 07-07-2004, 12:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: gtl

Ah yes. I remember seeing that article now.

It's synthetic diesel fuel made from gas in a process similar to the one used to make synthetic motor oil.

Main advantages: uniform molecular structure and no sulphur. Both of these help emissions.

Disadvantages: Cost, and it's still a fossil fuel.
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Old 07-07-2004, 01:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: gtl

It is still a dependancy issue. Many companies (BP, Shell, Toyota, ...) have branched out to renewables. It isn't because they are nice or proactive, if it was we would already have it after the 70's embargo time period. In business you have to have customers, both new or old, being dependant on your product or service. This case it is crude oil derivatives being imported. My issues are with environment and dependancy (both foreign &amp; domestic). If this is natural gas based it's still in the circle. Look up how much natural gas is being imported now and the trend, you will be surprised.

But, this is still a wonderful thing. You are still hooked but in a much better way. Anything that helps is fantastic and a good thing for Shell to do. By the way, they have been in solar panels too for a while now. British Petroleum also. BP has really helped the effeciency of solar energy per inch in panels with their laser technique.

Thanks for sharing this great news,
OK
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Old 07-07-2004, 04:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: gtl

what i think is cool about it are two things. first it is better for the environment which is nice because i like cars/trucks and we can't keep up this pace too long. second is that it has the potential to make diesel more popular here since emmisions are one of the blocks to us diesel use.
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Old 07-08-2004, 10:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: gtl

I personally think it SUCKS.

Anything that diverts attention from Biodeisel is a problem for me.

Bio is available NOW. We don't have to invest billions to get it to where its usuable. We don't have to tinker with questionable new technology. It can be used in any current model diesel engine at any cut from straght to 2%. We don't need to worry about where to put the used batteries, or what they will cost to replace them.

We have the ability to bring biodiesel on line RAPIDLY - as fast as we can get people to scrap their gassers &amp; hybrids. The NOX issue is really a non-issue, cause the vehicles can be re-tuned/catalized to remove it.

Biodiesel (both new feed stock &amp; waste oil conversion) can take a huge dent out of current oil/nat gas consumption RIGHT NOW, and as more effecient feed stocks are grown, we can totally eliminate transportation consumption of oil.

Biodiesel just makes wayyyyy to much sense to get diverted by costly alternatives.
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Old 07-08-2004, 01:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: gtl

why aren't we doing it then [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

i agree with bio diesel but this fuel was interesting because you can pour it in a current diesel and go. i didn't think i could do that in michigan w/ bio diesel? at least not half the year. and it has fewer emissions than bio-d blend.

but it (gtl) does defeat the purpose of getting away from fossil fuels.
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Old 07-08-2004, 01:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: gtl

[ QUOTE ]
I personally think it SUCKS.

Anything that diverts attention from Biodeisel is a problem for me.


[/ QUOTE ]

I just had a conversation with a brother-in-law who works for American Plant Food and has a PHD in Soil Fertility. The reason was to find out what he knew about biodiesel. His response surprised me.

He was not as optimistic about the near term progress of biodiesel and the reason was a real shock. The govenment apparently was prepared to spend a ton of money on research etc. The biggest opponents to this alternative fuel were the enviromentalists, the same people who oppose drilling for oil, driving your truck and just about anything else people might want to do, the envornmentalists. I would have thought the environmental groups would be pushing this product because of its enviromentally safe qualities. Not so. Apparently, using land to provide the oil source is against their credo. What is becoming apparent with these people is that there is no middle ground. They will not be happy until we live in caves and ride bicycles although I can't imagine how you could a bicycle they would approve of.

We have to start pushing this with our congressman and making them understand the facts.
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Old 07-08-2004, 01:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: gtl

not caves, just not in cars!!

we drive too much, i am in los angeles now so i think it would be hard to argue. there are about ten of us who live in the same apartment complex and all work at toyota on almost the same schedule (give or take a half hour) and we all drive seperate. we all have something going on before or after and cannot car pool [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

that is the way most of this country is. it will run out. finding a way to use different parts of the earth doesn't really solve the problem just makes a different one. that is probably their point.

and i don't want to fight about it, i walk a fine line seeing as how i own about 5 vehicles and build 4wd trucks. and a fast car. and trailer them around to tear up the environment [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img]
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Old 07-08-2004, 06:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: gtl

COST!!

I can't afford to run as much bio as I want. I just don't have the money. I run 5g of untaxed fuel, because that's all I can afford.

We need to get the environazis educated that biodiesel can be produced in sufficient quantities w/out using more land, and get the soy industry tostop gouging the market in the mean time.

Plant all the fallow land we have right now w/ rapeseed, and bring on line a few algae farms eating municipal waste streams.

Now try &amp; get your neighbor to give up their $45k Cadailac &amp; trade it for a new Mercedes S300 CDI. OH Yeah, go smack the CARB up alongside its collective head to let the new diesels be slod in that state, instead of new hybrids that polute more than the new diesels.

RRRooowwwww, phiiittt, phiiit!
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