Heating B100 for winter use?

[hheynow]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: davidpa28140</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if anyone has tried putting an electric water heating element in their fuel tank for this purpose, one of the 110V kind. </div></div>

Seriously, you're not serious are you? Why not put a bunch of cans of Sterno under your tank (after removing the spare tire of course) and heating it that way? Probably the same results with no drilling required. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

[drcampbell]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: davidpa28140</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ... I am not sure it would be required to run coolant down the fuel line if it were insulated as the tank should be warm and the fuel filter will be warm. ... </div></div>

No matter how well insulated something is, it will come to ambient temperature unless there's a heat source. If you insulate fuel lines without installing a heat source, (either providing heat to the fuel lines or circulating heated fuel through them) the fuel in them will cool off and gel up.

This is an essential difference between people and inanimate objects: Insulating an inanimate object doesn't keep it warm, it only slows how quickly it cools.

Thinking about this a little more, what about the injectors themselves? What happens if fuel gels up in there, or in the injector pump? If you're going to run summer fuel in the wintertime, I'd think it'd need to be heated every step of the way.

Another possibility would be to warm everything with coolant jackets, WVO-style, and install one electric coolant heater and one coolant circulating pump.

[robertwoodling]

I wish I had dual tanks on my '05 F350. If I did I would plumb one tank like tha WVO guys do and leave one to run dino d. Then start up on dino d and switch over when things warmed up. Switch before shut down to purge the bio d from the pump and injectors.
Unfortunately with the fuel return set up in the powerstrokes I don't think dual tanks is even an option from the dealer.
What would be involved in adding a second tank? How would you handle the fuel return issue?

[davidpa28140]

hheynow, I have made well over 2000 gallons of fuel using electric heating elements to heat it at each step of the way. First in the processing tank, then later in b100 form in the drying tank which I heat to 160-180F. I would suggest using a thermostat to insure it went no warmer than desired, which I personally wouldn't make much over 60-80 degrees. Further more, it is difficult to get a 110V element to make much heat anyway. I have had some heating elements(220) burn out when running a still that was used to reclaim methanol and nothing happened, except no more heat(note elements are submersed). The heating element would not be in use once the coolant temp was up anyway, It's just so bybyopec wouldn't find himself with a tank of jelly in the morning.

Drcampell, I was hoping that the electric heat could be removed from the fuel lines once the tank was being heated by the coolant, which should result in a pretty high temp, that I would "hope" would keep the lines warm on the way to the ip.

Good discussion guys, would like to hear some more ideas.
Dave

[hheynow]

davidpa28140 Regardless of how many gallons of bioD you've made with it I still think your idea of installing a 115v water heater element in a fuel tank is ludicrous. I agree we disagree. The only 115v cord going to my truck is the block heater cord.

[drcampbell]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: davidpa28140</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Drcampell, I was hoping that the electric heat could be removed from the fuel lines once the tank was being heated by the coolant, which should result in a pretty high temp, that I would "hope" would keep the lines warm on the way to the ip. </div></div>

If it's circulating, insulation alone can work. If it's sitting there overnight, insulation alone will only postpone, not prevent, the fuel temperature from coming to equilbrium with the ambient temperature. I'm assuming that at some point, it will be left sitting long enough for that the happen. I generally don't design for "almost good enough, almost all of the time".

[sv52]

Well we are talking about it now anyway.
The heating element in tank I would think is not needed as it is time consumming to install it. I see many diff size 110 V heating pads made for poly tanks that could be installed under a fuel tank and insulated. Also many types of heater cords wraps that run also on 110 V that could be wraped around the fuel lines and filter area with insulation of course. These heaters can even have set temps or adjustable temps. This handles the sit time outside. Start the engine- run to warm then the water lines that you would also have wraped on same areas would take over as you unplug the 110V.
Yes, you would need to have 110V for long sits away but then some can do it and some can not. I would rather let my truck run for 4 hrs if need be rather than pay the pump price.
The injectors as I have been told are heated by the engine block heater. I know that I plugged my truck in when it got down to 32 degs here and it started right up like it was 70 out and it was on B100 still.
I have not looked real close yet to my truck for this deal as I am very busy these days but winter is coming and I may do some cigar smoking and thinking on this more.
Lets keep up the thinking guys. Many heads are better than one.
Steve

[sglide]

I use an inline fuel heater , the hot water runs throught the unit to the heater . Upstate NY , ran B 100 all last year n/p .About $60.00 and up . I have a new extra german made one if you are interested .

[3bals]

When you can't plug in try one of these. I don't know how they would work on bio though.

http://www.webastoshowroom.com/BlueH..._ttc_specs.htm

Jody

[OldGreaser]

Hi all,

I don't chime in much on here, mostly read stuff looking for something I may be able to use, BUT I wanted to share my biodiesel cold weather heating system. Some will like it and some wont. I like it because it works for me. Many of you wont be as lucky as I am having space to do this without neighbor squaks. That helps with making BD too. OK. Winter here in Northern CA can sometimes get down to 0'F. But as of late the average low has been 26'F. So when it starts to get cold in the 33'-35' range, I put 1 gallon of B100 home brew outside in a clear glass jar on a stump near my 2002 F350. The first morning I see anything that looks like jell formation of the slightest cloud, I pull out a 35 foot roll of flex 3" aluminum tubing and snake it thru the shop / garage and out a hole in back and out the front of the garage to the tail pipe of the truck. And start it up and let it run. Last winter it was warm every single time I use the truck or shop. The garage / shop was comfee making BD too. And I would guess that it used 150 gallons of home brew B100 all winter. My B100 cost me .92 cents per gallon. The $138 dollars help keep my shop / garage warm all winter so making BD in my shop is not cold at all, my truck stays warm all winter and never had a problem. Many days I turn it off because it is NOT so cold, and start it up at night, When I leave home, I also let it idel if it is freezy weather when in the store or out to dinner or whatever, it idles and no complaint of diesel smell or excess diesel rattle noise. I wish the 7.3 could be reduced to 3.65 liters or 1.825 liters when it idles, Yah right !!! Works for me. Some pros are, no cold starts, and if someone steels the truck I get a new one, always warm, no foul smell with mixing kerosene or other OPEC products. The down side is, the extra cost of chemicals and oil collection time last summer, and it isn't for everyone. But the cost is the smallest of all the other chemical additives.

[sv52]

I take it you leave the truck running to heat the shop and keep the B100 warm? Not a bad idea but not for me as I already have a B100 heated shop and bio room off the back of same.
I just started my 2000 F250 7.3 this morning with only the block heater on all night and the temp was down to 30 degs last night. My sample outside was cloudy but not jelled yet. Truck is running right now to get the fuel system good and warm before I take off. Still wanting to add on a complete heating system as darn diesel fuel here just jumped to $3.25 gal........I can save $47 per 30 gal if I can keep using my B100.
Very good to hear about other peoples workings however and I hope we can get even more of the many ways so we can pool the thoughts to maybe a good working system that will say BYBYOPEC.....
Steve

[sv52]

Well, I have did some thinking on the heating situation.
have found that my 7.3 turbo has injectors that are pressured not from fuel pressure but hydrolic pressure. It seems that diesel is supplied to the injectors constantly and when needed fuel the hydrolics pressure the fuel into the cylinders. Now is the question, the diesel must be constantly circulating in the fuel lines to keep diesel available for use. Now the question. What is the amount of diesel that is constantly circulated? Meaning at idle, what is the amount of diesel being moved, 70% or more and what about when you are in road conditions?
If diesel is circulated in a high amount then we could look at maybe the heater system that uses the tranny or radiator fluid to keep the bio from jelling in the tank as long as the tank and lines are wraped ins'ed. Now if this was true, could we not then also use a circulation pump say 110 volt with a 110 heater system to heat and keep the bio moving through the tanks and system to have it ready for use? This may remove the need to have the lines heated with heater cords and the tank from heating pads? Just a good insulation job on the lines and tank.
Any ideas on this and info on the amouht of bypass through the fuel system when the truck pump is running? Can the standard pump let fuel pass if another circulation pump is added inline to move fuel through heater when truck is not running?
Any thougts guys?

[sv52]

Hello, anyone still wanting to heat B100 for the winter? I have seen this thread just die and no more interest?
Jeepers...diesel is $3.69 a gal and I would like not to go to the pump when I make hundreds of gals of bio.
My last thoughts on my last post is what I am thinking, anyone else think it would work?
Steve

[dakotajeep]

I was thinking today about a WVO kit and use it year round with WVO and/or bioD. I am now looking for a WVO kit for a 1994 F350 7.3 NA IDI.....

[sv52]

Yes the vegie or WVO heater kits would work if you have the room for an additional tank. I have a truck full of tools and no space for added tanks. Still looking at the dual heater, water/12volt/inverter system with OEM pump circulation as a solution but not details yet.
Steve