if you really want to know, forget about H generator for now, buy yourself a bottle of compress H, then inject controlled amount to different areas one at a time. Take you truck on a 200 mile trip each time. I am sure you will find out the answer very quickly.
Where you connect a hydrogen generator has no effect on fuel economy.
If you hook one up anywhere between the turbocharger outlet and the intake valves, (of a Diesel engine) the higher-than-atmospheric manifold pressure will cause fresh air to flow back into the hydrogen generator and no hydrogen will get into the engine.
I'm not a believer of the mpg gains. I run a wvo blend and I worry about possible valve coking and cylinder deposits. Is there any truth to the HHo helping clean internal parts?
Brain fart on the intake q. Sorry.
Dave
i was referring to diesel ,manifold absolute pressure monitors pressure change and engine load,sends info to the pcm to determine amount of fuel needed accordingly. it was suggested that the map sensor had to be adjusted to the lean side [by acc.device ]in order to gain any increase in mpg ,i dont see how adding hydro gas would make a difference in pressure , i do have a hydro fuel cell hooked up [in between the air filter and turbo , still tweaking it . no increase in mpg so far
Hydrogen generators and hydrogen fuel cells are two completely different things.
Hydrogen generators consume energy and produce hydrogen.
Hydrogen fuel cells consume hydrogen and produce electricity.
__________________
-
Douglas Campbell, P.E.
1986 Isuzu P'up, 177,673.8 miles.
- Hella headlights (highly recommended)
- DOT C-2 back end (also recommended)
- R-12 air conditioner converted to R-406a. Saved ozone and money
- 4.1:1 final drive converted to 3.4:1. Quieter, better mileage but it's a good thing I live in the flat Midwest.
- 9/22/2007, age 21: Still running well when reluctantly sent away for reincarnation, due to body & frame rust.
Last edited by drcampbell; 07-16-2008 at 06:49 AM.
have a friend whose dad put one on a 0ld ford fairlane, he said it is like 7 to 10 miles per gallon better, also said he only used one cell and would get better if he had more. But he said it would work on my old gas dually which gets like nuthn to the gallon and my ole 91 diesel hoss, so am gonna try and make one, am gonna check his out and look at his plans, he said he made his on less thanb a hundred bucks, but anwayz am gonna try it
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91 f250 4x4,, e rated tires,,cab lights,,,straitpiped to rear,,,,brand spankin new cd player,,,flatbed with gooseneck,,,one hellava bale hauler,,,
International 856 wide front and a super h wide front ,, both have three points for haulin those bales.
63 w200 power wagon 17.5 inch e rated tires,,4 spd, 410's plus a six popper, she's a lil slow but she'll go anywhere yu point her
New to fleet 95 dodge 3500 EXT CAB 4x4 5 spd cummins power, 4 inch exhaust,
also new 88 f350 4x4 non turbo 5pd straitpiped long bed 410's
There are a number of commercial manufacturers of supplemental Hydrogen Fuel Injection (HFI) systems targeted specifically for diesel engines. These vendors have been around for many years, but have targeted the heavy tractor-trailer rigs market, since those guys stand to gain the most from increased fuel mileage and consequently are willing to pay more for the systems. In my research I found most of these manufacturers in Canada, a couple in the US, and a few in Europe. The systems typically start at around $3K and go up to $12K. From what I've read, 9 to 18% mileage gains are typical. I've spoken to tractor rig drivers (I live near a truck stop) to learn about their experiences with HFI, and they generally speak favorably about it, reporting pay-back on the sytems typically in about 6mos. I spoke to a diesel tractor shop here in WA that installs these systems (typically they are installed by mechanics who have been trained & certified by the manufacturer), but this particular shop didn't want to deal with pickup trucks or cars.
We are just now beginning to see smaller HFI systems targeted to diesel and gasoline cars & trucks about to appear on the market. The only US company who's actually shipping so far is located in FL, their product is about $700. Other manfufacturers are promising small versions within the next 1-2 yrs.
The better units will have Pulse Code Modulated (PCM) power going to the electrolyzer to better control gas production. The gas (a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen) is injected immediately after the throttle body. The better units generate gas under pressure in an appropriately engineered electrolyzer vessel at around 60-80psi, so that it can be injected into turbo/supercharged engines. I have seen some systems that include a device that is inserted in the wiring between the O2 sensor(s) and Powertrain Control Module (ie, engine computer) to re-bias the O2 signal for preventing the PCM from running too-rich fuel mixture, as NOx and O2 is reduced in the exhaust when using HFI. For the more adventurous soles out there, there is a lot of DIY HFI systems being built and the internet is rife with plans; I've bought 2 such plans myself, and I have to say that it is a non-trivial project to build a good HFI system equivalent to the commercial products, involving building your own circuit boards (significant electronics), hi-pressure electrolysis vessel, flame suppressor (in event of back-fire from engine), and monitor/controls for under the dash.
To clear up a common misconception: supplemental HFI does not deliver its increased power & milleage gains from the energy of the hydrogen itself; instead, the gains are a result of the hydrogen burning up what's left of the un-burned diesel (or gasoline) fuel/air miexture in the cylinder that normally goes out the exhaust. Because of this, the power/mileage gains for diesel engines are less as compared to gasoline engines, since we all know that diesels are more efficient at burning their fuel compared to gas engines to begin with. There's an interesting video on utube from a TV station in FL that did a before/after test of an HFI system on a gas engine vehicle, that resulted in some amazing increases in mileage & power.
if you really want to know, forget about H generator for now, buy yourself a bottle of compress H, then inject controlled amount to different areas one at a time. Take you truck on a 200 mile trip each time. I am sure you will find out the answer very quickly.
Unfortunately, you'll find that the bottle of compressed H won't get you very far before it runs out (unless you have a huge rack of 'em onboard, and the weight of that then would affect the mileage results). So, you won't have much data to make much of a test/judgement.
Supplemental HFI systems generate the hydrogen on-demand at a typical rate of 60L/min. The larger HFI sytems sold to diesel tractor rig drivers can produce up to 3 times that rate. The only practical way to do that without a lot of added weight is to generate it via electrolyzing water (passing an electric current through the water, which breaks the water's H2O molecules apart into its hydrogen and oxygen constituents). Water has a tremendous amount of hydrogen and oxygen in it. 1 gal of water typically lasts a couple weeks for casual vehicle drivers, altho the tractor rig drivers I talked to go through 1 gal every couple days.
... Supplemental HFI systems generate the hydrogen on-demand at a typical rate of 60L/min. ...
60 liters of hydrogen per minute, or 60 liters of Brown's Gas per minute?
__________________
-
Douglas Campbell, P.E.
1986 Isuzu P'up, 177,673.8 miles.
- Hella headlights (highly recommended)
- DOT C-2 back end (also recommended)
- R-12 air conditioner converted to R-406a. Saved ozone and money
- 4.1:1 final drive converted to 3.4:1. Quieter, better mileage but it's a good thing I live in the flat Midwest.
- 9/22/2007, age 21: Still running well when reluctantly sent away for reincarnation, due to body & frame rust.
.... To clear up a common misconception: supplemental HFI does not deliver its increased power & [mileage] gains from the energy of the hydrogen itself; instead, the gains are a result of the hydrogen burning up what's left of the un-burned diesel (or gasoline) fuel/air [mixture] in the cylinder that normally goes out the exhaust. Because of this, the power/mileage gains for diesel engines are less as compared to gasoline engines, since we all know that diesels are more efficient at burning their fuel compared to gas engines to begin with. ...
It's very typical for the pre-catalyst exhaust of modern gas engines to contain less than 1000 parts per million (<0.1%) unburned hydrocarbons. That's 99.9%-plus complete combustion. How is is possible to get a significant performance gain by improving on combustion which is already 99.9%-plus complete?
Do we really "know" that Diesel engines are more efficient at burning their fuel? I haven't done emissions testing of Diesel engines and I don't "know" that, but since modern gas engines are already achieving 99.9%-plus complete combustion, I don't think it's true, and it hardly seems significant if it is.
Is Pulse Code Modulation the same thing as pulse-width modulation?
How does hydrogen injection affect NOx formation?
At first glance, I can't understand how taking the same nitrogen-oxygen mixture (air) and raising it to the same high temperature and pressure for the same length of time (rpm) can result in different NOx formation.
__________________
-
Douglas Campbell, P.E.
1986 Isuzu P'up, 177,673.8 miles.
- Hella headlights (highly recommended)
- DOT C-2 back end (also recommended)
- R-12 air conditioner converted to R-406a. Saved ozone and money
- 4.1:1 final drive converted to 3.4:1. Quieter, better mileage but it's a good thing I live in the flat Midwest.
- 9/22/2007, age 21: Still running well when reluctantly sent away for reincarnation, due to body & frame rust.
Last edited by drcampbell; 07-17-2008 at 08:30 AM.
Well who knows what works and what doesn't.
I have just built and installed a unit and have yet to get some real data outof the set up.
Years ago the go was to introduce a small spray of water into the inlet. Margial results were obtained not worth the hassel.
Has to be introduced before the turbo otherwise the hydrogen will vent to the atmosphere.
I have an open mind on this unit and will make my own judgement with my FACT input
figures.
Regards
Ron
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2000 F350 king cab 4x4,No engine mods,Roo Bar,Headlight and bonnet stone protectors,Inlet snorkel,flares on front,Engine driven air compressor and receiver,Hot water tap,tyre temp and pressure monitor,95 ltr fuel tank under right hand side,aluninium side steps,flat trayback,50ltr water tank under left hand side,heavy wired front and back for 4500lb electric winch, Bilnstien shocks,converted to right hand drive,battery conditioner,electric trailer brakes,heavy duty tow bar,synthetic oil in tranny,extra tranny coolerand filter ,tranny temp & pyro,
Ride-Rite airbags all round.Full flow muffler outlet at rear of vehicle.Engine breather mod.HHO generator
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