It appears that this stuff can be real dangerous. I admit I know nothing about the process of making this fuel, but from the ingredients I have been seeing in these posts, it would appear to me that you better know what you are doing and be safe about it. Also is this methanol you use to make this fuel, the same stuff as drug dealers use to make homemade drugs? If so, purchasing this in large quantities may bring some unwanted eyes your way. I would be interested on any input on these issues...............Hig
I too am a bit concerned about the dangers of handling some of the chemicals to make biodiesel. It sounds like you'll be okay if you're careful, though. For this reason, plus trial and error, I would suggest starting small. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
For this reason, coupled with the space necessary to begin production on a scale large enough to matter, I'm leaning towards WVO...
Have you read the ingredients label on the crap you spray inside your oven to clean it?!?! (actually, its not much different than what you need to make bio-d. funny huh?).
Pouring gasoline into a hot lawn mower is more dangerous than making Bio-D. Its just, unlike spilling gasoline on yourself, Methoxide will actually hurt.
Its basic lab safety. If your smart enough to make chocolate chip cookies without burning yourself on the stove, you can make Bio-D.
It would just be our luck that someone decided to use a propane BBQ to "cook" their methoxide mix in a closed shed where the vapours could build up.
Now. Quit being a part of the problem and start being a part of the solution.
If that's your attitude, I don't know why I started this forum. He asked legitimate questions I think and was getting at the same thing I mentioned in the News forum. If this is how people plan on acting, this forum will be very short lived.
hig--pm'ed a couple of people of the dangers--they thought was as simple as drinking soda--but like daryl said-msds and common sense should dictate the use of this stuff--as some said--most people have red devil lye in their house--and methanol is heet gas line antifreeze--dont breathe any of it--or dont get it on you either---
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In addition to no inhaling is it flamable. I guess what I am getting at is this stuff safe for a regular guy to read some stuff on the internet and make it safely. Where do you buy methanol and how much does it cost. Actually, contrary to what some may believe this subject interests me, I just do not think it is feasable for most folks to do it economically. I am reading and learning as this forum developes. Anybody got any links to credible sources where the formula's are discussed.............Hig
I posted all that today. Look for the thread title materials for making bio-d. It should still be on the first page of threads. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Methanol is Race Gas. Very flammable. burns clear, so if you spill it on yourself, you wont see it on fire, but you'll feel it!!
Lye is just red devil drain cleaner. can burn if you mix it with water and get it on you. Water can cause Lye to react violently.
Mixing the lye with methanol create Sodium Methoxide which reacts with the oil to seperate the glycerine from the actual oil. what it leaves behind is pure Bio-D.
Its gradeschool science. (well, SUPERVISED gradeschool science). ANyone with a good head on their shoulders and some common sense can easily make Bio-D in their garage.
You buy your methanol from the racetrack, and your lye from the grocery store. Everything else is scavenged.
Hig
I get the methanol from a speed shop one gallon at a time. I just put it in a vaporless gas can, and bring it home. Costs 3.50 per g.
When you mix the methanol and the lye, it is best to do it with the least amount of open air contact. I just measure out the lye on a scale, and then open the gas container, and pour it in. Very simple, and very little fumes get out. Ill be honest, at first, I wafted the fumes to see what they smelt like, and I couldnt smell a thing.
Anyway, to mix the methanol and lye, you can just let it sit, and rock it occasionally. You really dont have to do much. Let it sit for 5 minutes or so, and then pour!
Not to keep beating the proverbial "dead horse," keep in mind that these are, after all, kitchen chemicals. Lye is just drain cleaner and methanol is used in Sterno cans. As mentioned by others, methanol is sold as gas line antifreeze. It's also a key ingredient in fuel for model airplanes and cars - kids' toys.
The lye/methanol (sodium methoxide) mixture IS caustic and WILL burn. It is dangerous if you drink it, spill it on your skin (and don't wash it off) snort it or set it on fire. It will NOT spontaniously ignite, explode, or "go critical" and vaporize your house in a big mushroom cloud! Heed the warnings and follow the safety rules and you'll be OK.
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I have looking into biodieselfor several months. My wife thinks that I have gone off the deep end.
I bought Joshua Tickell's book, "From the Fryer to to the Fuel Tank". Should be required reading before getting started. I just made my first 1 litre batch from virgin oil using Tilly's Dr. Pepper method. See the link below and perform asearch. I plan to get started slow and eventaully burn from a 20-50% blend.
My first attempt to find a source for methonal was not very good. It was going to cost $3/gallon. I looked some more and was able to find it here in OKC for $1.80/gallon +/- 10 cents. Not a bad price.
There are several sights discussing this topic. There are several knowledgable people at the Infopop Biodiesel Discussion Forum. Maybe some of those guys will visit this site and educate us. Other sites have been listed here already.
Jason, I was happy to see this forum added. I think initially that it have a lot more traffic than the Infopop. We will have to see how it holds up.
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Actually, I tend to agree with Higgins; even though I've been using biodiesel for about a year, I don't make the stuff myself.
I think methanol is more dangerous than gasoline. It's just as flammable, you can't see it burning, and the fumes can blind or kill you a lot sooner than gasoline vapors will.
Sodium methoxide is NASTY and the fumes will make the methanol fumes smell like cologne.
Making a gallon or 5 just to satisfy curiosity is no problem.
But if I were going to make biodiesel, I would make 30-50 gallons at a time. This ain't no gallon at a time purchase of methanol -- it's have one drum of methanol to use and an unopened one for when the current one runs out. Can you imagine what would happen if 60 gallons of methanol, 200 gallons of vegetable oil, and, say, 50 gallons of biodiesel caught fire in my garage? Can you imagine what would happen to my attached house? Can you invision what my insurance agent would say as he denied my claim?
Or how about this? My 6 year old daughter, who LOVES to be daddy's helper when I'm working on my truck, opens the methanol out of curiosity and takes a big sniff. Or gets into the lye. Or even worse, one of her friends does.
If I lived in a rural area and could make biodiesel in a lockable shed at least 100 ft from my house, I'd probably do it. But I won't do it unless my wife, neighbors and insurance company would be OK with it.
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Or how about this? My 6 year old daughter, who LOVES to be daddy's helper when I'm working on my truck, opens the methanol out of curiosity and takes a big sniff. Or gets into the lye. Or even worse, one of her friends does.
It's just common sense, in my opinion.
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Like you said. Its common sense. You know the chemicals are not safe. Therefore, a child should not be near them. The same can be said for regular household cleaning products. Your 6 year old prolly wont be helping you scrub the oven with oven cleaner (almost the exact same stuff by the way).
Im not sure I would be making 200 gallons at a time in my attached garage either, but for those who have the resources, this is a great project.
Its all in how you handle yourself, and handle your chemicals. You've pretty much layed out the argument for why bio-d production is not for you, but others have less restrictions on their hobbies.
This is also a good reason to investigate a Bio-D Co-Op. While *YOU* might not have the room/space for a production unit, that doesnt mean a local group doesnt meet at someones house/business to brew up Bio-D as a group with pooled resources and some experienced help. That may play better into your views of "making your own".
I dunno. Ive made a few batches, and the only thing I can smell through the whole process is the WVO. No odors from methanol, or from lye, or from methoxide. I tried to smell it, and...nothing. (No wisecracks here.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif[/img])
There are such things as a fumeless processor..........
Ill be doing about 10g batches at a time. Simple. 2g of methanol. Alrighty. Ive got a 2g container. Im not worried about fire, as I will not have any of these things lying around. Buy the methanol the day you use it.
Hell, I keep gas and diesel around. Im not worried about that. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]
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Its all in how you handle yourself, and handle your chemicals. You've pretty much layed out the argument for why bio-d production is not for you, but others have less restrictions on their hobbies.
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Right, I wasn't meaning to imply that it can't be done safely -- just that there is more danger than some people tend to think and that it's not for everybody. There is nothing in biodiesel production that cannot be handled safely, but it takes an organized, purposeful effort to be safe, along with certain resources.
I would buy methanol by the drum rather than by the gallon because it is WAY cheaper that way for me. If you are fortunate enough to have a racing store near you who will sell it by the gallon at a reasonable price, go for it.
A coop would be a good option for someone like me.
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