Jello durings process?

[branerb]

Workin on makin some Bio Diesel there. Hve some fresh veg Red devil lye and some heet The yellow bottle. What i have been doing is 1 L of Veggie 250 ml of heet and ran around 5 grams a lye. And every time it would turn to Gel. So i cut down to about 3 grams of lye since it was new oil. Same effect. so then i thought hum, so i jumped up the heet. Same deal, Jumped up the lye to 8 grams and still Gel. So my question is what am i doing wrong that is causing it to gel? I got some pictures on the way. Sometimes when it does seperate, the top will turn to Gel and the bottom will turn into some goopy solid nasty stuff. Basically it looks like a big snot wad

[teester]

Did you already post this problem somewhere before? Seems like I read something like this last week or so.

Well anyway, the formula that is generally the starting point is:
*1L veg oil (heat the oil to remove any water!)
*.2L of methanol
*3-5G lye (depending on who you listen to!) I have made it with 3 and with 5.
Note: The lye should be snow white and not sticking together! If it is yellow and clumpy, it is ruined other than for drain cleaning!

While the oil is cooling, add the lye to your meth. and mix until fully disolved. It won't work if you add the items separately to the oil!

After the oil cools to NO MORE THAN 130 degrees F., add the mixture of lye and methanol to the oil and stir vigorously. You can set it down for a few minutes and stir it again. Keep doing that until the time is up. At that temp, it should only take around 30-45 minutes to process.

I know one guy who starts with 5 for fresh oil. His experiments with lab equipment concluded that with <5G lye, you get an incomplete reaction, which is close to not meeting the ASTM standards. He routinely uses 5 with good results. Something which I have done also.

If you are getting gel, the normal reason is too much lye. Regarding the methanol, people have made it with as little as 15% (150ml/l oil). I have made it with as little as 17%. May be that you are using too much methanol. I have never used too much so I don't know what that will do. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

To sum it up, make sure your oil has no water, make sure the lye is good, and try it with only 200ml methanol and 4G lye. Make sure you are measuring it right also!

One ounce of lye is 28.35 grams. So the 18oz container of lye at the grocery store should convert appx. 102L of oil to homebrew at 5G/Liter. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img]

Keep us posted!

[mannytranny]

You are either using too much lye, or there is water in your oil, or your oil is too cold.

Heat the oil to 150* for a few minutes to heat off the water.

Wait until it comes back down to 80 or so. If it is hotter, you run the risk of your methanol boiling off faster than it will be able to do its work. Not to mention danger to you.

[branerb]

Well we did another batch, ran to the store for some other things and picked upanother bottle of oil ( i heat it up but i dont htink water is too bad i nnew oil


Anyway. The new oil turned out what i believe is ok. But let me tell you all what my seperations are and see what i got here

Its more less 2 layers, on the bottom there is about 1 1/2 inches of this red thicker stuff. And on top of that is a golden clear. then in the botton there are some while chunky flakess which I believe to be Glycern. But not as much as i thought i would get. But what is the redish colored stuff thats what im lost on. I honestly cant remember. Im sure the top is biodiesel.

To keep it all in the same post. My 2 questions are. what is the red layer and what kind of test can i do to determine the quality of fuel?

[teester]

Congrats! The red stuff is the glycerin. Dark red is the color of the bottom layer when the oil is new. The white flakes? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

To test it? Try and burn it. It should burn but will take a few seconds of flame to ignite.

What did you do different? Measurement error? Bad lye?

[branerb]

YEPPIE. It worked. The first ones that were gelling was another kind of oil. We used Canola oil for the first one that worked. Then I decided that the 6 grams was too much lye. just put in a pinch of lye, enough to get the reaction container to get warm when i was mixing the methodoxide ( spelling might suck) Then instead of sitting it on the counter i brought a pot of water up to 130 and put the jar in the pot and let it sit during the process and it worked


Tried it with the new oil and it worked as well. Something you might all know that i just learned. The Canola Oil seemed to yeild more diesel than the veggie oil.


About the layers. The red did turn into Gly for the most part. I put her by the window over night and she got solid. But there is still a big of red layer between the glycerin and the diesel. Could this be a mix of diesel and Gly, and that would be why it didnt form up?


Thanks for all your guyes help

[teester]

Congrats, now you can filter and pour, or try your hand with washing and drying... Sounds like work now don't it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Washing it will remove unreacted chemicals and suspended soap particles etc. However when you wash it, drying it will take some time. It's so easy and quick to make it but washing and drying takes some time! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/vomit.gif[/img]

[mannytranny]

I did not know that you were using fresh VO. Rule out water.

Better seperation will take 3+ days.

You want clear BD at 70* or so. As I udnerstand it, the cloudyness in BD is water. Leave it out with a vent, and clear BD should prevail.

[teester]

[ QUOTE ]
You want clear BD at 70* or so. As I udnerstand it, the cloudyness in BD is water. Leave it out with a vent, and clear BD should prevail.

[/ QUOTE ]

If at 70* it is cloudy, it is likely water. However, as the temp cools to the 40's or so, even dry biodiesel will cloud depending on the type oil it was made from. I think canola (rapeseed) don't cloud until the 30's or so. Biodiesel made from hydrogenated oil will cloud at much warmer temps.

BTW, heating the brew will make the water drop to the bottom much faster leaving totally clear fuel if warm enough!

[forddodgechevy]

Yep i ran it through a wash this morning. THen Today when i got home from work i heated her up to make sure all the water was out and now its gel. If i heat it up too much does it gell? Anyone know why it did that?

[forddodgechevy]

by the way,, im strokins brother haha

[teester]

UN UH. Never heard that one. My last batch took three washes to complete. Wash it, mixing gently I quickly learned, and let the water settle over several hours. Drain the white water off, rinse and repeat! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Do this until the water is almost as clear as tap, then heat and allow to settle out until clear.

PS If you mix the heck out of it with a mixer of some sort the first couple of times, it very easily makes mayonaise and such if over or under processed. If you ever get a case of the mayonaises one time, you will likely be ready to throw in the towel!

One quick note. If you do get the mayonaises, LOTS of water and many rinses later you will get most of your diesel back. If in a hurry, throw some salt in it and it will start to break up immediately! Best thing to do is try to measure carefully, mix your chemicals fully and not make the mess!

[forddodgechevy]

Well Guz you been a great help. Although i did not get the mayo effect. It still held the same color and the diesel. It was just thick. I was thinkin that maybe it was because i heated it and then let it sit and it for some reason gelled up from cold (in garage, but sat out there for a hour in jar and didnt gel so i was likek well humph

Um anyone found a way to drain off the water out of a mason jar? haha

[wellrooted]

If you're only making 1L test batches, a 2L soda bottle works quite well. You can't let the BD sit in there for weeks, but it does hold up for quite some time. I didn't heat my oil nearly as high as 130. I usually just put it in the intense Colorado sun for a while and then put my methoxide in the bottle. If my test was good, I got seperation in an hour or so, if not, I usually got gel. I always used WVO so I was never sure about water content. I generally never had a problem though, that is, back in the day when I was making BD. Those days are over now.

LOL
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[roreri]

Glad to see you are still here !!!
I'm still going strong...

RoReRi