just spoke with international service tech- Good Stuff

[fordnut74]

Just spoke for some time with an International Service tech who sounded very knowledgable on the motor. We talked about several items on the 7.3, but what applies here is running veggie oil. First the temperature, The oil/fuel going to the injector WILL be at engine temp, by the time it goes through the head, into the valve cover, and travels to the injector,the fuel will absolutely be at engine temperature. To me this explains why those of us running without heating the veg first are having few problems. In fact, by the time the fuel is injected into the cylinder, the tip of the injector will be close to 1,000 degrees. That pretty well makes viscosity a mute point. The HPOP by design is essentially isoloated from the effects of the higher vicosity prior to reaching the fuel rail. He said he is absolutely not concerned about internal engine damage. The guy said that so long as the oil is the same viscosity as diesel at engine temp, there "shouldn't" be any problem, at least for the injector. His concern would be the low pressure fuel pump, and the injectors simply because of lack of research, but did not have a solid reason why running veg oil would be bad. GOOD!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I will not take one mans word as gospel, but it is a good start

[ToddT]

Sounds good!!!! Thanks for sharing this good news!

I'm saving my pennies and about to give the guys at Greasel a call. I'm liking the sound of their 100 gallon system with the heating pan in the bottom.

To me, it seems like filtration is the key. I'm adding filtration to the engine oil, cooling and tranny. Adding it to the fuel is just one more element to change. It all adds up to longevity for the truck.

And using veggie for fuel sure helps on the pocketbook!

Thanks again.

Todd

[fordnut74]

No kidding it helps the pocket book. I have spent about $20 on diesel in the last 600 miles or so. However I have spent around 250 on pumps, filters, barrels and misc to do this. but that's cool, that stuff is a one time charge. Also spoke with another service tech and he as well couldn't think of a good reason why using veggie would damage the motor. If it is not smoking much out the tailpipe, then obviously the stuff is burning allright. he said to make sure to do an oil analysis. That will tell all. It will indicate if there is any abrasive deposits in the burned oil, if the stuff is coking up, and a host of other info.

[Lobstah]

"by the time it goes through the head, into the valve cover, and travels to the injector,the fuel will absolutely be at engine temperature."

The newer 7.3s must be plumbed quite a bit differently from my old 6.9. My fuel doesn't go anywhere near a valve cover OR a head. Line goes from my tank selector switch straight to the filter and injector pump, and then the lines run from the injector pump straight to the top of the injectors. Looks almost like a set of rigid spark plug wires when you look under my hood [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

All the lines are "external"...

Now the part about the temp going through the injector makes a lot of sense to me WHEN the engine is running, and everything is warmed up. When trying to start, this isn't the case, which probably is part of the tough starting symptoms.

I've added a new fuel pump to my list of things to change/add when I do this, as I think the pump will be working harder depending on the temp of the oil, and replacing the factory mechanical lift pumps on 6.9s is a pretty common occurance anyway.

Great info...nice to hear stuff like this from someone more knowledgable than ME [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Lob

[Jaackman]

Lobstahl there is no comparison btween the 6.9 and the PSD I had an 87 at present time I have a 97 I dont even know where my injecters or lines are yet I would think that the older 6.9 would be a better canidate for veggie fuel because all parts are easy to service and the injecters thread out like spark plugs. The mechanical lift pump on the 6.9 gave me grief I replaced it with a electric Holley Red pump that was a major help in that priming the engine after a filter change is greatly improved to the point of ya gotta wonder what Ford was think when they decided to use a mechanical pump....

[fordnut74]

[ QUOTE ]
The mechanical lift pump on the 6.9 gave me grief I replaced it with a electric Holley Red pump that was a major help in that priming the engine after a filter change is greatly improved to the point of ya gotta wonder what Ford was think when they decided to use a mechanical pump....

[/ QUOTE ]
That was another interesting thing I found out about the PSD from the service tech as well. The International T444, which is the what the PSD was designed from actually uses a mechanical pump that sits about where the fuel filter is on the PSD's.

[ QUOTE ]
Now the part about the temp going through the injector makes a lot of sense to me WHEN the engine is running, and everything is warmed up. When trying to start, this isn't the case, which probably is part of the tough starting symptoms.

[/ QUOTE ]
No doubt this is responsible for the hard start, but it is a "hard start", and not a "no start". These motors (PSD) were designed to start and operate at -20 [(as per Itnernational's website) http://www.internationaldelivers.com...444edetail.asp ] and diesel is not exactly runny at that temp.

[jdkline]

Let me reiterate the conventional wisdom, that you need to start and stop on #2 or biodiesel. Please do at least that, or you will be plugging some injectors and shortening you pump's life at minimum. RE; the mechanical fuel pump on the 6.9s. They are easy to get out, but HARD to get back in, the back bolt I mean. If I did it again, I'd remove the alternator and jack the front of the truck up or put it on ramps. The mechanical pump is one less place for an electrical gremlin and its CHEAP and readily available anywhere.

[yaric008]

I'd imagine even our out of the head injector lines and such they still get mighty hot. Have you ever run the engine a good long day and opened the hood and tried to touch anything, it's bloody hot!! I would guess hot enough to heat up veggie oil nice and good. And the tips of the injectors are probably just as hot as the powerstroke injectors.

[fordnut74]

FWIW, I checked the temp of the oil in the fuel filter bowl after getting home yesterday and it measured 130, before going to the injectors.

[Oklahoma]

Fordnut74, thanks for the info to us. I have been trying to find out myself but can't find someone that takes you serously once you say why your asking for. They get a smirky grin like 'Sure, a vehicle will run on vegy oil crazy person. I saw a juggling cow yesterday too!'

The temp you measured at the bowl was with or without heating the vegy oil? Just curious if it was unheated. I have been also wanting to know the temp and on/off status of a PSD heated fuel bowl. 130F is pretty good unheated first.

Thanks again,
OK

[jdkline]

Yes, but not nearly warm enough. It must get to at least 180* to approach the viscocity of diesel fuel or biodiesel.

[fordnut74]

Oklahoma- Yeah, I know what you mean about funny looks. Interesting the variety of responses i get on this. Some think it is the coolest thing they ever saw, others start to reach for the phone to call the funny farm.

The temp I measured was measured with my Sears infared temp reader. I do not have a heating system of any kind at this time. I checked the temp after the motor had been at operating temp for some time, ambient air temp was 73. 130 is plenty warm to go through the filter. JDkline is correct that the oil should be around 180. This is where the PSD's have the advantage. Besides the filter sitting on top of the engine, once the oil leaves the filter, it runs along the head, to a fitting through the head and to the injectors located under the valve cover. This is a dead head system after the filter, so their is no recirc to cool the oil. It sits in the fuel line absorbing heat until used. By the time the veg oil reaches the injectors, you can bet your left knee the oil is engine temp 180+. The tip of the injector is at ~1000. Long story short, only for the first few minutes of a cold start is fuel oil temp a concern. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[jdkline]

Well, if that's the case then you should have no concern whatsoever with lack of heat. It would be interesting if you could get us an IR temerature with your gun right beofre the oil hits the injector. You could start on diesel and once the t-stat opens, take it for certain that you are good to go and switch to veggie.

[fordnut74]

[ QUOTE ]
It would be interesting if you could get us an IR temerature with your gun right beofre the oil hits the injector

[/ QUOTE ] That would be cool if I could, but since the injector is below the valve cover, I would have to remove the valve cover on a hot engine, no fun [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bleh.gif[/img] and by the time i got to the injector, the static fuel in the line would inevitably be engine temp. Had to clean out my fuel filter today, so that means the second filter went about 1800 miles or so on veggie. better than the 200 the first one made it. I suspect that as I get better at my filtering technique, I will go longer and longer on fuel filter's

[94_turbo]

filters dirty????? started the passat on veggie at 2/3 mix--first filter lasted 1200 miles--then 1000-then 800-then 500--the last one------------60 MILES!!!!!!! used biocide in the tanks after first filter to kill any fungi--------it did---took one apart--all black---dead fungi!!!!!!!so now--am going to pull the fuel all out of the tank, clean tank---and start over----the passat had 285,000 miles when started the veggie--apparently--theyd been living there awhile!!!!!going to modify the pickup tube anyhow--so might as well be now------------