Need help! ready to quit!

[ffbones]

This is my second batch of bio and I keep getting what i think is soap/emulsion. I Have fairly clean bio on top, a mirky white layer in the middle, and normally white wash water on the bottom. This batch I used 22% metanol oil titrated to .8, I did a 5% prewash. I have dried for a total of 48hrs and still keep getting this mess. I drained about 1 liter in a seperate bottle to look at it and hopefully try some different solutions some more experienced bio-makers suggest. My bio also keeps failing the 3/27 I dont know if it's because it's not dry or what I'm doing wrong? Any thoughts

[baroy68]

Sound like to much lye in your prosess

[yaric008]

Just keep washing. It'll go away eventually. A little heat will help to. Get an immersion heater and let it heat it up and the soap will separate quite a bit. I used to have these problems alot, especially in the cold days but you learn to deal with it.

[StorminNorman]

Well, I am totally confused. How much oil did you start with? It titrated at .8, so that is pretty easy oil to work with, as long as it was not contaminated with water or a caustic cleaner. Did you dry the oil before processing? Now the part that really has me wondering if we need to go back to Bio 101. Why are you drying the bio and still have a water separaration. Nothing is going to dry with a supply of water to moisturize it, and if you are trying to evaporate free water you have a long process ahead of you. Go to biodieselcommunity.org and restudy the process especially the steps on washing and drying.

Norman

[ffbones]

Well I started with 100 liters. And yes it titrated to .8 six times I thought it was very low myself according to Utah bio. Sorry to make that sound confusing I noticed the separated layers in the liter of bio that i drained out. I wanted to be able to see how it looked during and after a washing. I have read and reread and reread the biodieselcommunity web-site. Cut me a little slack this is only my second batch.

[hheynow]

When you're tired of making mayonnaise come join us on the WVO side.
We're kinder to newbies.

[yaric008]

Are you using NaOH or KOH. If you're using KOH you should have used (5.5+.8)grams per liter so 630grams. If you're using NaOH then you can get by with about (4.5+.8)grams per liter or 530 grams. Then you should have added about 19-20 liters of methanol in, then mixed it for 2-3 hours. Let it settle for around 12 hours, drain off glycerol, then relaim methanol if you like... or just start to wash. At first the biodiesel will look kinda nasty and the wash water should come out pretty whitish. Stop when it gets really thick white. Then just keep washing in whatever amount you can. I personally can only wash 20 gallons at a time through the biodiesel because of the size of my container. Usually after about 100-200% of water run through it compared to the biodiesel. So like 50-100 gallons of water for 50 gallons of bio. After the water comes out pretty clear if there is still a white layer I turn the immersion heater on and heat it up to around 100F then let it settle for a long while. This usually removes most of the white stuff. Whatever white stuff is super stuborn i usually just drain into another small container and let it settle into water and biodiesel then just put the biodiesel into the next wash batch. After 99% of the white stuff is gone I do a simple shake test with water with the biodiesel and if the water seperates out really clear then I put the bubbler in there and let it run for a whole day. When I come back it's usually crystal clear. Water will continue to fall out of it while it's getting clear too so you have to drain additional water out...

Hope that helps...

[Halitosis]

Originally Posted by hheynow

When you're tired of making mayonnaise come join us on the WVO side.
We're kinder to newbies.

(snicker).

We get more chicks, too.

Halitosis

[VD350]

Originally Posted by Halitosis

(snicker).

We get more chicks, too.

Halitosis

Fat girls love the smell of french fries

[StorminNorman]

Did you use KOH or NaOH? Quantity? It sounds to me that you have underreacted oil and the 5% prewash may have caused an emulsion that only heat and time are going to break. I don't feel that the 5.5 grams quoted above is near enough KOH. Did you do a 27/3 test before washing? Don't try it now, it will fail.

Norman

[ffbones]

NaOh is what I used (5.5+.8) 22 liters methanol. only thing I didn't do was let it set for 12- 24 hrs before my first wash.

[Homemade WRX]

Originally Posted by VD350

Fat girls love the smell of french fries

threads like this make me nervous about getting into the biodiesel game...but I'm going to give it a try anyway.

[ffbones]

UPDATE: I have run my air pump and heater (around 90deg.) for about 8 hrs. I did have a little more free water come out of my tank and the bio is A LOT clearer. Still needs more drying then I'll do a 3/27. Guess i just got in too big of a hurry.

[VD350]

Originally Posted by ffbones

UPDATE: I have run my air pump and heater (around 90deg.) for about 8 hrs. I did have a little more free water come out of my tank and the bio is A LOT clearer. Still needs more drying then I'll do a 3/27. Guess i just got in too big of a hurry.

How fast are you adding the prewash water? We had one batch where we just dumped in the 3 gallons and it made a mess, made it turn into this white "mayonnaise" stuff. it settled out in that batch but from then on we poked holes in our Water jug to slowly add the water (were talking 6 pencil sized holes in a WVO cubie). havent had a problem since. Just remember the 3/27 test is just a test for conversion, its not the "know all beat all" test.

[StorminNorman]

Like I referenced before: Biodiesel 101 requires ALL the glycerine be removed before washing. Not letting it settle for another 12 hours has caused you-- what 2 weeks worth of work on 2 failed batches? Not too productive. People who have problems with the biodiesel process are usually people who cut corners. This is a chemical reaction and certain simple laws of physics apply.

Norman