NEWBIE with WMO/RMO report and QUESTION/NEED HELP

[RoGrrr]

I’ve been reading the long “WMO Info” thread and have been researching waste oils for a while. Since that thread is long and old-ish, I decided to start a new thread so I wouldn’t get lost in the crowd.

I drive a 96 F250 7.3PSD 4WD (relatively new to me), dual 5 inch straight stacks, 35 inch tires, 4 inch lift, EDGE programmer, new glow plugs, stock, otherwise. 200,000 miles and I get about 14 MPG on the freeway. It has plenty of power and lots of acceleration.

Originally, I was going to run WVO but the fella who sells that reputed ‘northwest’ “BEST” kit (WAY expensive, too) is a real jerk (yes, we had some words) so I decided not to give him any of my hard earned $$$$.

This is a preliminary report on my WMO/RMO experience. Not much driving yet but I’m working on it.

Finally I decided to try RMO. My first batch came from my mechanic and had some antifreeze in it but he said he would tell his helpers not to do that any more, knowing what my requirements are. I drained the coolant from a bottom pet**** and then filtered the rest.

I set up a filter with a PF8 followed by a “rope wound” whole-house water filter (like LunaTech uses) at 5 microns. The feed was by gravity from my garage going down into my basement, a fall of about 8 feet. It was slow but at that point, I was patient. I hadn’t set up my truck yet. Since then, I got an oil pump from a Chevy S-10 that I built a bracket for and am going to drive it with a 1/2 HP motor. That should increase the flow rates considerably.

I’ve installed a 50 gallon aux tank in the bed of the truck and had to install a vent in it. The tank was placarded for aux fuel and “do not connect to a vehicle fuel system”; you know the drill. It had no vent for sucking the tank down. After I installed the ‘no spill’ vent with a protective cage around it, I filled it with 5 gallons of oil. The truck started up fine and seemingly ran well.

I’m running 100% RMO tho maybe in hindsight, I should have blended it with diesel and increased the percentage to find some sort of “sweet spot”.

When I get on the highway, it accelerates very well up to about 40 but then gets a bit anemic. Well, it gets a LOT anemic. Pushing on the pedal gives almost no acceleration. I haven’t had a chance to drive it very much yet so I can’t tell you much more. I’ll play with it more and will report here.

At this point, I have no idea why the at-speed performance is so bad. Does anyone have any ideas ?

RoGrrr

[94_turbo]

the lift pump in the center of the valley--may not like pulling 100% wmo--esp as it gets colder out, idi's have the same problem-------and about the chev oil pump--when you go from gravity feed, to pressure--your going to get larger particles passing thru the filters, in spite of their micron rating--also,check your fuel filter, it may be getting dirty--

[arthurgoboom]

x2 on fuel starvation. Everyone I've heard of running 100% is preheating the fuel tank. Try 66-75% oil with remainder being diesel fuel, it doesn't take a lot of diesel to have a very noticeable thinning effect.

As for your pump, I would recommend springing the relief valve in the oil pump to a low pressure (20 or so psi) and installing a gauge between the pump and your filters. Like 94_turbo mentioned, the harder you force it through, the more large particles you'll pass through the filter. Also, I used the rope wound filters at first but I now prefer these "spun bonded polypropylene sediment filters" I found on ebay. I bought a case of like 20 for $40ish. They're supposed to be 1 micron and they appear to be VERY dense. When I was using the 5 micron rope filters as my final filter (had a 20 micron primary) I had some fine black sediment in the bottom of my plastic gas cans I was carrying in the bed for extra supply on long trips. I haven't tried the test again, but I figure it has to be somewhat better.

[RoGrrr]

BOOMIE

I understand about the fuel pump and filter. To think of it, I haven’t changed the filter since I got the truck, tho I haven’t driven it more than 1500 miles. Talking to the previous owner, yes, it IS due for an oil change so I think I’ll change the filter too.

I plan to hook up a portable fuel tank and test it on straight RMO and then dilute it to see where the “sweet spot” is. Or, maybe there isn’t one; maybe I don’t need to dilute. I’ve read where others run theirs straight, even in winter.

I do also have a 90 gallon tank that was previously used with WVO AND has a frybrid (Oooh, I know that's a nasty word) heat exchanger in it. If I need some heat, I do have that option.

My chevy pump system is not gauged, which is one thing I had planned to do, eventually; nor is the output adjustable so I think I will build in an adjuster for the pump and watch the gauge as I pump. And I have seen that filter clogging is noticeable with a gauge. I think I’ll do all that sooner than later now, and thanks for the suggestion on the polyprop sediment filter. I found some on EBAY (seller - waterpure.il) for $46 plus $20 shipping from Israel. (W T F ?!?) Wonder if they come complete with any Hamas ?

I should be able to work on it this weekend so I’ll be posting as things proceed. I also plan to run RATF if I can pick some of that up, too.

RoGrrr

[RoGrrr]

Boomie

I replaced the fuel filter today and drove it on straight RMO. Not only did it run strong (I mean STRONG !) it didn't flatten out about 45. I easily got it up to about 75, still pulling strong, like a bull.

What I noticed, tho, was that not only was the boost up, like easily over 20 and sometimes over 25, the EGT climbed VERY QUICKLY to 1200, when it normally ran 1000 max with diesel and cruised the freeway at around 700. That concerns me, since I keep hearing fellas say to keep the temp down and get out of it when the temps climb. I suspect that when I start pulling a load, it will run really hot with me not having any way to back it down, other than switch back to diesel.

I also don't know what program the EDGE Programmer is set for. I'll have to check that and post.

RoGrrr

[RoGrrr]

so I installed a new fuel filter and drove the truck. It ran GREAT. I was thinking that I solved the problem and drove it to work yesterday (40 miles of freeway each way) and then a couple miles to pick up a big oil tank. It ran great all the way. I'm thinking, "MAN, I'm "in like Flynn".
I picked up the 500 pound tank and drove it home. Still ran great.
I did notice, tho, the EGT ran from 100 to 200* higher than with diesel fuel. it used to cruise at about 600 and now it is up to around 800 on level interstate, changing only the fuel.

So today on the way in to work, I had gone about 25 miles and noticed the RPM climbing but the speedo drifting down. I also think it had come out of overdrive (auto tranny). I felt less and less response from the throttle pedal, to the point, I thought I had run the 50 gallon tank dry. No gauge on it and I have no idea what kind of mileage I'm getting.

I pulled off the pavement and popped the hood to get at the valve (I had installed it under the hood to switch between oil and diesel) to change back to diesel. I have full tanks of diesel and used that as my comparison. It worked and I got to work.

So this afternoon, before I started home, I checked the tank - plenty of oil, switched back to RMO and started the truck. I also pulled the fuel filter and saw that it looked good, not all plugged up like I expected it to be. The diesel had rinsed the black away so I could see the filter media. So I put it back in and started it.
It sounded good and had plenty of power. I drove about 10 miles and it got 'flat' again. The temp gauge on the dash was normal but the EGT was still 100-200* higher than diesel. I switched back to diesel and it drove normally the rest of the way, with normal power and temperatures.

When I got to within about 5 miles of home and decided to try the oil again. Drove about 3 miles and it really got flat and I had to switch back to diesel.

At this point, I really don't know what to do.

Do you have any thoughts ?

I plan to drive it again tomorrow, primarily bcuz my car is broken down - bad alternator and it's taking me a bit of time to troubleshoot it and take the spare off the parts car and install on my driver.

I'm wondering if my fuel line might be plugging up and not allowing full flow of fuel (new 3/8 hydraulic hose which should not be collapsing or shedding) . I plan to pull it out this weekend and run a wire thru it and pull a rag thru, like cleaning a gun barrel. It's about 15 feet so I do anticipate some trouble doing that. Unfortunately I can't see thru it so I have to "feel" my way thru it.

RoGrrr

[RoGrrr]

OK, here’s the latest

I switched it over to oil and got in the truck this morning; it was cold from sitting overnite. It started normally and off to the races I went. I got about 2 miles and noticed it going flat. As I was climbing a small hill, not only was it lugging down, but it died. I pulled off the road and switched it back over to diesel. It cranked for between 5 and 10 seconds and sounded like it was trying to start and maybe even a muffled backfire !
I let off the key and then cranked again. Another 5 seconds of cranking and it started.

At this point, looking at all the symptoms, I’m beginning to believe it’s fuel starvation, probably coming from either a collapsing rubber fuel line (I have rubber hydraulic hose from the tank that is sitting in the bed) up to the fuel selector valve located on top of the engine, or the “sock filter” I put on the bottom of the pickup tube is clogged. I don’t see how the hyd hose could be collapsing – it's new and I don’t think the fuel lift pump has THAT much suction to flatten it. I’m going to check it all out tonite.

If the sock filter is clean, I’ll pull the hydraulic hose and rod it out to see if it is actually restricting the flow of oil.

Someone asked me if my fuel line is big enough to flow enough oil to feed the 7.3 engine. My response was that if the hose is too small, why, then, was I able to romp it REAL hard Wednesday and it pulled very strong up past 75 MPH and then haul a 900 pound load home (high fuel demand conditions) the same day but now,empty and I wasn't getting on it, it lugged and even died ?

Process of elimination leads me to believe it is a fuel line problem. If necessary and I find that the hydraulic hose is failing me, I’ll replace it with a steel line of larger diameter. I didn’t hesitate to use a rubber supply line since oil is not considered flammable and if it did somehow spring a leak, the flow rate would be low enough to allow me to repair it before my 50 gallons runs out.

Again, I’ll post my findings here.


BTW, I had disconnected my glow plugs in March. I start the truck without the aid of glow plugs while it's warm. When the temps get down into the 40's I'll reconnect the relay.

The reason I disconnected them is, not needing them, there is no reason to run them, drawing about 150 amps, which strains the batteries and alternator and burns the relay contacts. I see to it that the rest of the truck gets enough abuse as it is.

[longwolf]

Are you heating you rmo lines?
Could just be a viscosity problem.

[RoGrrr]

I'm not heating since it's summer and the "what appears to be" 30 weight oil is (appears to be relatively) thin. I have a frybid heat exchanger which I can install (quite a bit of work to do so) but what I might do in the interim is cut the oil with #2 and see if a #2 helps any (ha, that's funny

When I do, you'll have an update immediately. Right HERE !.

RoGrrr

btw, I'm still concerned about elevated EGTs on oil.... Guess I'll have to ask JSKI

bt,btw

I checked the filter and it looked good. I checked the sock filter and it looked good, too. So I opened the fuel line at the engine and blew the contents back into the tank and removed the line from the output of the tank (nipple heh heh) and blew thru it by mouth. I felt no restriction so I still believe the line to be good.


At this point, I'm at a loss for what's causing it to bog down...

Originally Posted by longwolf

Are you heating you rmo lines?
Could just be a viscosity problem.

[bluesman]

Thin that oil w/diesel and I'll bet problem solved.

[RoGrrr]

Bluesman
That's what I'm trying to find out - HOW MUCH should I thin it ?
Read what I posted and you will see that I DID thin it.
What I want is some data, not try "this" or try "that".

Originally Posted by bluesman

Thin that oil w/diesel and I'll bet problem solved.

[bluesman]

I scanned through your comments before posting and didn't think I saw where you had (thinned). I have never tried to run 100% but have had good luck up to 70 or 75%. I usually hover around 50/50 and always premix before filtering and gravity filter also. Has worked very nicely in my old 7.3 PSD for several years. (I'm filtering another tank for a week-end trip as I'm posting this).

[RoGrrr]

bluesman

First, I have to offer an apology to you. I've started several threads here on the alt fuels board and thought I had mentioned diluting my MO here, too. Apparently I did not. Sorry.

I had cut this particular tankful to about 65% MO and 35% fuel oil. I used FO bcuz I had a batch of it that I wanted to get rid of. It is old and the person I got it from wanted to get the tank out of her basement since she switched to a heat pump. I have no idea how old it is but it does burn.

RoGrrr

Originally Posted by bluesman

I scanned through your comments before posting and didn't think I saw where you had (thinned). I have never tried to run 100% but have had good luck up to 70 or 75%. I usually hover around 50/50 and always premix before filtering and gravity filter also. Has worked very nicely in my old 7.3 PSD for several years. (I'm filtering another tank for a week-end trip as I'm posting this).

[88beast]

im just starting still getting setup ready but most on here run 50/50 or 75/25
youre dong it backwards lol
you start full diesel and wane motor on to full rmo youre gonit full rmo to diesel
id back it down to 50/50 and then up it gradually from there

[RoGrrr]

88beast

I was down to half tank of mixed MO and fuel oil, which seemed to run reasonably well. Yesterday on the way to work I decided to top off the aux tank with fresh diesel. I put about 25 gallons of diesel into my 50 gallon tank. Drove it about 150 miles and all seemed well until I noticed that the cap on the rear tank was leaking diesel onto a fella's driveway. I decided that I needed to run that tank down a bit so I put 100 miles on that tank just to lower it until I could get home and replace the cap. Then I went back to MO and it seemed to run well on that mixture.
I don't know what kind of mileage I'm getting since I don't have a gauge on the tank and could not tell how much I had put in compared to how much I had driven.

I have also noticed that since I have been running more diesel with the MO, that the EGT is back down to normal temps.

I'm now looking for that sweet spot and will try to operate in that area from now on.

I hadn't tried adding MO. So I'll give it a try that way. I do know that there are problems with 100MO, which is why I have been backing down, rather than going forward.

I still don't know what I'm going to do with the fuel oil I have.