Soap & Wash?

[01stroker]

First, is it normal to have some soap floating on top of the bio after mist washing? I mist washed 3 or 4 cycles a little while ago and there was some soap (I guess) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img] floating (Ivory?) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] around on top. The water still looks like fat free milk!

Second, I got a flat round air stone to bubble wash with and when I put it in it didn't have the tiny bubbles I thought I would have when it is on the bottom. I can pick it up a little and it will put out smaller ones. Reckon it is upside down? I have it bubbling right now. This is my first wash. I have been going slow, reading and getting everything together. Hope everything works out!

Thanks
Steve

[Nitro454]

if it looks like milk, it sounds like you have an emulsion and used too much catalyst. Can you get some pix? it sounds like you may have to pump it back into the processor and mix it with glycerin and try to get it to settle out again.

[01stroker]

Nitro, the fuel doesn't look like milk, just small amounts floating around on the top. The wash water is what looks like milk. I don't have time for pics right now, maybe later. It was good oil, titrated at less than 1 ml.

[scottefontay]

It is normal for the first wash, sometimes the second to be very white. Make sure that the mist is actually gentle, and not making foam. If the nozzles are right near the surface of the biodiesel then it could be foaming the biodiesel. Your pump is probably not quite strong enough to overcome the hydrostatic pressure when at the bottom, that is why the lack of small bubbles. You should not bubble wash on the first wash until you get it down. When I do bubble wash first I set the air flow at the absolute minimum required to make bubbles. Also, try warming or adding warm water, that stuff on top should break easier with heat.

[01stroker]

How many washes is it taking on an average to clear the water up? I ran either 3 or 4 cycles through it and the water is still milky looking. I didn't try the bubbling until about the 3rd one. The fuel doesn't look milky. It has the orange juice look to it. I took a sample and nuked it and it is crystal clear, but I'm sure I don't have it washed enough yet.

Thanks

[dkenna]

I use 6 10gal mist washes. Water is pretty clear after that. Then transfer to a drum with a electrical elemant and circulate with fuel spraying aginst the side of the drum , to air dry.
My "mister", I made with a piece of plexi glass. I drilled holes in it for the mister heads and then drilled holes for zip ties to hold the hose and mister head down. I put it on top of the drum and mist away.

[Johnathebar]

As far as the soap looking stuff I think that's fairly normal for the first wash or two. I usually see some of that also, especially after the 1st wash. It seems to come up from the bottom of my wash barrel when I add the water for the 2nd wash.

This is what I would suggest though: I've had the best results by doing a mist wash only on the first wash, and it is important to do like (someone mentioned above) and keep the mist heads far enough above the surface of the fuel to keep it from emulsifying... you really want the mist to pretty much float down on top of the fuel, not to be forced upon it with any velocitty.

For my 2nd, 3rd, and if needed for the 4th wash I use a bubbler. My experience with the stones was bad: the biodiesel pretty much dissolved them and I got huge bubbles (like a whirlpool bath) instead af nice little champaign bubbles like you want. I bought at Petsmart a bubbler that looks like nothing more that a bluish-clear straw with tiny holes on one side (actually it comes as a package with 3 "straw" units, 2 of them connected together are a good length), and the smallest aquarium air pump they sell. I do the 1st bubble wash for about 4 - 6 hours, the next for 8 - 10 hours and only if needed the last for up to 14 hours. Usually after the 2nd bubble wash my wash water looks clear. By the way, you will have to ballast the bubbler with something to keep it on the bottom of the tank..... I used nylon zip ties to attatch it to a 1 foot long piece of scrap rebar.

OK, now that we have that defined, I would also sugggest that you heat the fuel being washed. This is especially important if you are working in a cold shop. The fuel tends to give up its contaminants much, much more readily when it is warm, and is particuarly easier to break an emulsion with heat. I bought an extra electric water heater element at Home Depot and just have it connected to an old heavy appliance cord so it will just plug into a heavy-duty timer. I lay a strip of scrap wood over the barrel and spring clamp the cord to it so that it just is barely submerged in the fuel. If you are starting with cold fuel you can run the heater for an hour or two, then have your timer run in 15 minute on/off intervals. Be sure not to have your heater too close to the plastic tube feeding the bubbler!!

I've been brewing my own for a little over a year now and this system seems to reqire the least involvement on my part. Let me know if you need amy more guidiance or would like to see pictures of my wash system.( might be better to PM me, as I don't come here too often). It's not like anything I've seen anywhere else and it works beautifully. I gradually improved on it for the first several months of brewing until I've got something that works well every time....

Take care

[girlmark]

great writeup, Jonathebar

I use a piece of polyethylene tubing with holes poked in it with a push pin to do the bubbvling (I use little brass hose barb connectors (1/8 or 2/16 barb) to connect to the aquarium air line).

Others have used an aspirin bottle with the barb from your first dead aquarium bubblestone glued to it with JBWeld or somethign like that (and some washers inside to weigh it down).

As for why your wash water is so white even though your fuel titrated so low (which should have produced less soap), maybe htere was water in the oil originally also? That can cause more soap to form.


Mark

[01stroker]

Thanks everyone for the info!

dkenna, how many heads do you use? Where did you get them?

Jonathebar, I may get in touch later if my process doesn't get better.

Girlmark, the water could be an issue, I didn't check it, itwas only used one time and had been settling several days. It was real clear oil.

Steve

[RickHredf250]

From what you described, you are on the right track. Those floaties show up from time to time, maybe a little to much lye. But does not sound like you have an emusification problem.
Just keep misting/bubbling and find a way to heat the BD. I normally heat mine to around 110-120 and it washes like a dream.
I use a bucket heater from Tractor supply. 1500 watt 110volt for about 38 bucks. Two of those and adding some hot water for the wash make short work of heating the bd during the wash. Heating will also make the floaties melt into suspension allowing them/[it, the soap] to get washed out.
Rick H...

[dkenna]

[ QUOTE ]
dkenna, how many heads do you use? Where did you get them?

[/ QUOTE ]

Utah biodiesel supply. I ordered the orbit arizona mist 1/4' misting system: web page It has five heads.

They shipped real fast.