SVO-Bio mix ?

[bamboo]

Aloha so we've been running bio for over 4 years now, Mostly store bought, We had planned to make it ourselves but no methanol on island, and if it is, Its really expensive..
So at $4+ a gallon for bio we thought we try blending it with SVO filterd to around 1-2 microns so here are a few questions we have run into

What is a good % blend for a warm climate ?
Is it OK to blend with Bio-D ? or is #2 better ?
Is a heated aux filter needed? Or just good for piece of mind
Do you premix at batch of lets say 240g ? or do you blend it in your trucks tank?
We had planned to run this blended stuff in our 99 PSD 96 PSD and 99 JettaTDI as well

Thanks for any info!
-Patch

[airfooter]

I know people who had better success blending VO with bio-d than diesel (less separation). Best thing to do is put a sample of your blend in a clear bottle and observe for separation. If anything falls out of solution, I wouldn't use it. Still, 25% would be max and I would only use that on longer trips - a 5 mile commute to work would be a worst case scenario.

[rockets10510]

Originally Posted by bamboo

Aloha so we've been running bio for over 4 years now, Mostly store bought, We had planned to make it ourselves but no methanol on island, and if it is, Its really expensive..
So at $4+ a gallon for bio

where is bio $4 a gal. its 2.29 where im at

anthony

[bamboo]

Ok, So what kind of problems would I run in to with a higher % of SVO ? say 40-60 ?
Would it be wise to get a heated filter Or is it a matter of separation

There is alot of close range driving being on an island, though often I have 200+miles round trip

[airfooter]

Anthony, Aloha would be yer first clue! The only thing they don't pay more for in the middle of the Pacific is sunshine...

As for higher blends, viscosity is the biggest issue. You can put honey in a windex bottle - but it ain't gonna spray right. Poor atomization thru the injectors leads to incomplete combustion and subsequent coking/carbon build-up means a slow but inevitable death.

Yes, heat is the key to solving the viscosity problem. Straight VO needs to be 160-180* to be 'thin' enough to atomize properly. The problem with blending or 'single tanking' is not only is the VO cold - even with a heated filter - but so is the combustion chamber! Incomplete combustion occurs even on diesel while the engine is cold, so does some blow-by past the rings. The blow-by becomes a big problem with VO. See, if a little diesel finds its way to the engine oil, its not too big of a deal. But, VO rapidly polymerizes and forms long chains of molecules. These chains do not fit in the places where the oil needs to go to lubricate the engine properly. This is in no way visible to the naked eye, unless you can see sub-micron size particles the same color as the rest of the oil... I have seen engine oil that looked like black cottage cheese from an extreme case of blow-by (hole in piston) and severely neglected oil changes, but that is rare. More common is increased engine wear, but that is usually eclipsed by coked up injector tips and valve seals...

There are several other equally important reasons not to run high % blends of VO - but this post already looks like a novel.

Sadly, many people have read 'success stories' from people who are blending, but almost nobody ever comes back to say how their engine was wrecked after their 'experiment'. Believe me, there are MANY more horror stories from blending VO (and WMO for that matter) than there are true success stories. I know of at least a dozen just this summer! Makes for a nice supply of VO for me, but I hate to see the poor guys answering to their spouses... I'm going out TODAY to get 200 gals from one such guy. This guy will never post a word about it.

[bamboo]

Airfooter, Thanks alot for the infomational post

I've read about running 115% adding an extra 15% of im not sure what, Is there any way to run a higher % of SVO without problems down the road?

a 25% SVO mix aids me in my $4.50g pricing, But not by much, local buddy of mind whos running svo is mixing it with 2stroke oil keroseen, #2, and whatever else hes got laying around..
but he is also a mechanic and can afford to break things I guess

but if there is one of those ingredients than can help thin things out I'd be willing to give it a try

[airfooter]

Originally Posted by bamboo

but if there is one of those ingredients than can help thin things out I'd be willing to give it a try

Not really. There is a company that sells a 'secret' ingredient and makes grand claims about what it can do - but MANY, MANY people have learned that scam was indeed 'to good to be true'. Your friend is playing russian roulette. Although some claim to have had long-standing success doing this, there are many more who haven't been so lucky.

If you drive much (and have a source for WVO), it really doesn't take long to recover your investment in a quality VO conversion system - especially at the price YOU pay for fuel. Hell, I've saved enough in 110k miles to buy my wife an Excursion AND convert it with the BEST VO system available!! And now she is saving enough $$ on fuel to fix the Excursion up real nice (shooting for +450HP next year! - on nearly-free fuel!! )

Lets see - $4k conversion - @ $4/gal and 15mpg will take 15k miles to 'pay for'. How long will that take you? There is another HUGE benefit. I was unemployed for the most part for first 1/2 of this year, but I didn't even blink about loading up the family and taking a 4,800 mile camping trip the day the kids got outta school! That woulda been $1000 worth of diesel - or $750 if I 'blended' 25%. Either way, the trip (a trip of a lifetime for many people) would not have even been a consideration w/o SVO conversion.

115%?? I thought my friend Lenny here on TDS was the only one who could do that! Sorry Lenny, I can't help myself! I do hope you're experiment is still going well...

[bamboo]

Lol, understood.

What is included in a VO system ?

[airfooter]

Primarily a second fuel system that incorporates a way to heat the fuel. I have a Frybrid V3 system in wifes Excursion.

The V3 module is the meat and potatoes of the system and is produced by DFA - Dino Fuel Alternatives (sponsors of this forum!). Jason Crawford, aka FN74, developed this conversion design to monopolize on the unique injection system found in the PSD. Until his brilliant tinkering, everyone used 3way switching valves, etc for conversions - FN74 developed the check valve design now incorporated into the compact V3 'module'. This module contains the VO system fuel pump, filters, check valves and sensors/switches, etc required for conversion - and does it in a very compact package. It helps provide a totally separate and redundant fuel system from the fuel tank up to the engine.

Frybrid gets the V3 module from DFA and incorporates their exclusive 'heated fuel pick-up', heated fuel lines and a final heat exchanger. The system automatically switches from diesel to VO when the VO is hot enough to prevent long-term engine damage and has a fast purge feature that clears the engine of VO in just a few seconds before shutting down.

The best thing about these systems is the minimal invasion of the factory fuel system. Literally, the ONLY modification to factory fuel system is the simple addition of check valves to the fuel lines. The VO system is tapped into the 'test ports' in the heads and otherwise there is minimal additional stuff under the hood. This is KEY if ya ever have to let someone else wrench on yer junk. I know folks that were flat out told 'I cannot work on this, I have no time or patience to figure out what has been done here. Return it to stock and I cn help you with this regular maintenance item.' Another nice feature is you can almost always run on he 'other' fuel should there be a problem. I know people who made it home on VO because diesel system broke! You can also run strickly on diesel without issue should you not have any VO for some reason. In fact, by turning off the heat, the VO tank can easily be used as an aux. diesel tank extending your range!

There are a couple other companies out there that sell 'kits' for conversion for less $$. Trust me, they look like middle school science projects. The DFA or Frybrid 'systems' look factory and have all the parts ya need for install as well as detailed instructions - simply no comparison to the so-called competition. They each use the highest quality clamps and use pushloc hose fittings with JIC swivels, etc - no home cheapo crap. If you're gonna do it - do it right the first time and FORGET ABOUT IT. Thats what I did 110k miles ago in my F350 and wifey has already racked up 35k VO miles in the last year!! We have YET to have the first problem.

BTW, I'm not on any payrolls here - I'm just a fan of ingenuity and moreover QUALITY.

[bamboo]

ok, So looking at frybrids website, I see the OBS trucks kit for 1725, and the other for 99+ $3495

Which is the V3 (im assuming the more expensive one) how exactly does it connect to the factory fuel system?
With an upgraded fuel system in the future, will I see any problems adapting every thing to an electric style pump, or something similar?

And with a tank,, The heating element goes inside, yeah ?
Im thinking if maybe I can get a tank made local here otherwise im going to be paying an arm and a leg, but will need the heating element first right ..

Mahalos
-P

[airfooter]

Sorry, I don't get here very often anymore... The V3 is the more expensive system. Frybrid still uses 3 way switching valves on the OBS trucks because they use an engine-driven fuel pump for diesel AND the fuel system on those trucks is not 'deadheaded'. The electric fuel pump required for the later-model trucks costs alot more than the 3 way valve systems. DFA actually replaces the OE mechanical fuel pump with a 2nd electric pump on OBS trucks - so their OBS system is even MORE than 'standard' V3 system.

Frybrid uses an exclusive 'heated fuel pick-up' which is basically a module that drops into the top of the fuel tank. It avoids 'heating the whole tank' and instead focuses almost all of the heat right around the fuel pick-up. There is nothing else available that even comes close to how fast and HOT the oil comes out of this thing! I think Frybrid's 'kit' price includes one of these pick-ups, ordered to your specifications (iow, ya tell them how deep your tank is) - but, the actual tank would be extra. So, yes, you may save some $$ having someone local build your tank. Where you are, find someone who builds tuna towers or custom boat fuel tanks. Around here, you can usually get about a 40gal custom tank built for $500 or so.

[VEGI H]

I am The guy that got stuck on the canadain border when diesel fuel pump failed,grease got me home (200 miles).......................H

[bamboo]

So in order to run the V3 system I will indeed need to convert my OBS to an electric style SD fuel pump correct ?
Meaning I need two electric fuel pumps..?

Thanks for the info vegiH and airfooter, I hope to be burning grease ASAP!

[VEGI H]

The V3 is all inclusive,everything you need to burn grease. I have learned you are gonna spend the same amount on either kit,either to make it right thru several "versions" of home kit,or writing the check for a vegistroke V3.Personaly I like self purging,automatic shut down in my Excursion,as It is "wife" proof,and anyone can drive it as there is no interface with unit,it is fully automatic.I also have a on-off kit in my wifes' jeep liberty CRD,love the milage but it is a manual purge/switch-over,and less efficient on conserving diesel.Also parts "wear-out" as you are using them not for designed use.If you want a well engineered quality turnkey system I would reccommend Dino fuel Alternatives and thier V-3 system(v-3 for OBS incorperates STOCK fuel system) and is a stand alone fuel system in itself. If you are a wrencher you can build a simple example of vegistroke on the web under "FN 74" WVO system (plans used to be on DFA site),but are readily found free of charge.This is well designed and is the ground plan for the V1 vegistroke by jason crawford(he is FN 74).My friend did this kit 4 years ago will self sourced materials,only thing replaced has been fuel filters and upgraded tank.I hope this helps you out,if you need any info I am "GreasyX" on the DFA Vegistroke forum and I know alot of really smart folks over there..........all are welcome over there if you have any OBS questions as there is a department for your truck.................Vegi-H (GREASYX)

[bamboo]

Aye, So how does the DFA kit compare to the Frybrid kit ?
Airfooter Cleared it up I think
"Frybrid uses an exclusive 'heated fuel pick-up'"
But don't offer a second electric pump for the OBS kit..
Can I Just order the 99+ kit does it Include two electric pumps??
Or must I buy a Bean's type fuel system First??