Very Serious Problem With WVO - Page 7 - Diesel Forum

bigstrokerdiesel · 03-05-2006, 10:53 PM

sounds like the fella that made his own batch put too much meth in it because when we run it it in the monster trucks then if you dont lean it out when you shut the truck off it stays in the lines and 1)draws moisture and 2)corrodes every aluminum fitting in its way. just my .02 ???? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

TimberF250 · 03-07-2006, 09:26 AM

Somethings coing on with my comp again all of a sudden cant email so i hope u c this. i was wondering if u have any pics of your setup do u have heated lines plan on changing over front tank 2 wvo could use any pointers from anybody that has had success doing it thanks Timber

TimberF250 · 03-07-2006, 09:31 AM

what the heck is a fordnut 74 inspired system looking to change over front tank running heated lines to tank any help or pics would b appreciated from sum1 who has had success running wvo ive got an old truck im rebuilding engine in now 83 oklahoma truck thanks Timber

TimberF250 · 03-07-2006, 09:38 AM

do u have any pics of your system. looking to change over front tank to wvo adding heated lines and filter. any help from sum1 that has had success using wvo would help in doing it right the first time. Thanks Timber

TimberF250 · 03-07-2006, 10:10 AM

what kind of system r u running im looking at changing front tank over using stock switch add heated lines mayb a hotfox and vegtherm any help or pics would b appreciated looking 2 do this right the first time on the cheap thanks Timber

OMCUSNR · 03-07-2006, 04:48 PM

Timber,

I usually don't like to come down on guys here, because my spelling & grammar aren't the best (& typos happen), but you really need to learn how to use punctuation, & stop using texting. Your last 4 posts are almost unintelligble.

Sorry to sound like a know it all, but I'm just trying to help.

Reid

KansasDiesel · 03-08-2006, 08:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Timber,

I usually don't like to come down on guys here, because my spelling & grammar aren't the best (& typos happen), but you really need to learn how to use punctuation, & stop using texting. Your last 4 posts are almost unintelligble.

Sorry to sound like a know it all, but I'm just trying to help.

Reid

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I was trying to figure out what Timber is looking for, I don't know about others but I stop reading post when they start using "u" instead of "you" 'r' instead of 'are' etc....

Timber what are you wanting? I have a FN74 system. are you asking if you can convert one of your 2 stock tanks and use his system? And what does it have to do with this post " Very Serious Problem With WVO "?

TruckerDon · 03-13-2006, 11:37 AM

Not really, guys. Just ran the truck to Daytona and back. I'm gonna get Swamps to upgrade my injectors again in a few months. I got the lab report back, and my oil was VERY high in sodium and potassium. Go figure.

TimberF250 · 05-24-2006, 11:34 AM

Nothing I guess and YES I can type but unlike you other computer gurus I type two fingured. I'm good at other things, lol. Truck is running fine didnt convert tank to heated just running blended here in WI for the summer. Heat oil to 220 F let cool to around 150 F then run through 3 different filters. I add cetane boost, diesel clean and 10 percent kerosine. Runs great but I know this year to rid tanks of oil before winter. I installed Amsoil filter ADF-10 and bypassed stock water seperator, which I believe was letting air get into system anyway. FILTER,FILTER,FILTER is my motto when running wvo. I bought used I.P. on ebay and rebuilt already sitting on workbench ready to install when the one in the truck fails. Hope good luck and many miles to all fellow B.O.O.B.'s. (brotherhood of oil burners)Thanks for all the help guys. TIMBER

BadTrukRisin · 05-25-2006, 09:41 AM

Just a sidenote on the cleaning of the deep fryers. I was in the restaurant business in Louisiana(Chinese restaurant) fro a number of years. I had many chefs go through there over the years and here is what they did with the frying oil and cleaning. We used a commercial cleaner, I don't remember the name but I think is was caustic based. After draining the oil through a filter manually, then add the chemical and fill with water, the fryer was truned on and boiled for a while. Then the vat was drained and threw away(through the grease trap) The fryer was then scrubbed and rinsed. Then the oil was put back in and the fryer turned on. After coming to 350* the fryer was turned off and let set for 30min. Then we drained approx 25% of the oil off the bottom. We then used the power filter, how many microns escapes me, and refiltered the remaining grease. We then topped off the fryer with fresh oil and started frying eggrolls!! Eggrolls are mentioned because they contain a lot of cabbage and it has a lot of acid in it. We did all this to save money on the oil and to keep the oil fresh and not tasting to acidic. We didn't test ph but just used this process and it worked. So, a lot of you may be getting just the bottom of these fryers oil and not the entire batch and it is most likely highly concentrated with acid. Hope this is not too long. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]
Bud

JOAT · 11-07-2006, 09:57 PM

This is partly pasted in from another Forum. Basically I had been trying to duplicate the etching damage a few people had seen in their injectors, and one of them had confirmed Lye based cleaner in a batch of WVO. Don't know if it was the same problem as what was in this post, but very possible, as the type damage was the same.

Normally Lye does not react with steel. It is commonly used in machine shop boil out solutions too. I had heard it claimed lye in unwashed biodiesel causes issue, but again I wanted proof since Lye is not supposed to affect steel according to chemistry references.

I was able (finally) to create damage using WVO and Lye. I had tried several things; just lye and water; lye, methanol, and WVO; Lye and WVO; and Lye, water, and WVO. It was the last that did it, nothing else seemed to have any effect, and initially, even the final candidate was having no effect.

I started with a tablespoon of Lye (sodium hydroxide), added 4 tablespoons of water, and mixed thoroughly. While the mixture was still hot from the reaction, I added a cup of dry filtered WVO, and mixed it to a fine emulsion. I then suspended an injector part half way into it, and stuck it in the oven at 200*F.

After a few hours, I noticed the mix had separated. The top half was a dark gelatenous looking goo, and the bottom was a slightly lighter syrupy stuff. I adjusted the Injector piece so it went to near the bottom, part in each layer. Still no effects visible.

Several hours went by (still in the oven), and there was a change. The 2 previous layers had switched top to bottom, and there was now a third, very dark layer, at the bottom. I then adjusted the injector part so an edge was in this layer too. Still no damage.

Several hours later, I pulled the piece, and noticed the edge in the bottom stuff was blackened. I cleaned it and polished it a bit, and there is noticeable roughness to the darkened area when you run a fingernail over it.

Something in the reaction of the Lye and WVO created a compound that reacts with steel!

The left of the piece in the pic, is the cleaned off darkened area, now slightly rough.
PIC of Damage

Hard to see the bottom damaging layer in the pic, but this is the final test solution.
PIC of test solution

Unfortunately I'll be out of town for work, so little time to run further tests. Wish I had the resources available to do a complete analysis on that bottom layer...

94_turbo · 11-08-2006, 08:56 PM

doggone--post is getting old--but info aint--keep going guys--still am wondering---------------

Monte1 · 11-09-2006, 11:25 AM

Joat,

Good thinking and good idea for the test. I think the lye reacted with the water, forming a strong corrosive base, which is the opposite of acid. Old, smelly wvo already has water in it because of the formation of free fatty acids. So, to get the corrosive effect, you might not need to add water to smelly wvo. Lye and water will eat almost anything, including steel. I don't know why anyone would be putting lye in wvo and then running it in an engine. It IS used in the biodiesel-making process, but it is removed after the bio-D is made. I like the way you think and then experiment.

fordnut74 · 11-10-2006, 04:09 AM

Man sometimes I hate computers. I just got done typing a nice long reply, and then push wrong button and somehow close the page. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] so here goes again.

First, Joat good job on the test results. I was pretty certain the Sodium Hydroxide caused the corrosion. Just couldn't prove it. At least on Clay's injectors.

So I talked with a lab that specializes in Corrosion today and found out more questions than answers I think. First corrsoion is an electrical process, basic or acidic. In order for corrosion to take place ou have to have an electrically conductive medium so that the metal can give up its electrons. Normally this is water. However, in our case with injectors at such high temps and pressures, if it was water we should see pitting caused by cavitation. Usually corrosion can be prevented by adding a metal that gives up it's electrons more readily than the other metal in the system, such as Zinc, and a zinc anode. It gives up it's electrons, and nuetralizes any electrical potential.

I just acquired ome injector parts of my own, and plan to run a few tests similar to yours. What I have to wonder is- Is the oil, water and sodim hydroxide creating a new conductive property or chemical? Will boiling the water out of the oil have the same effect? how about settling the water out?

JOAT · 11-10-2006, 08:36 AM

Hey Jason,

I plan on trying to duplicate the test and isolate some of the suspect chemical. Also curious if only WVO causes this or if fresh VO can be used. Will be back Sat (actually near Portland now, but all work no play...)

I started a related thread on the Biodiesel Infopop, One response was a compound may have been created that makes Black Oxide. Seems plausable from what I've seen. I'm leaning more to a lye reaction with other compounds in the WVO, not so much the oil itself. There are various Sulfur, Sodium, Nitrates, etc from the food. The fresh Vo test likely will confirm that.

FWIW I'd think any clean polished steel could be used to test, saves on injector parts...

Water VO and Lye normally just make soap. Lye being used in many cleaners including machine shop hot tanks, I think some additional reactant is involved. Or maybe just the Lye presence cleans the metal so well other stuff can get past the oil and attack the steel? Hopefully whatever it is will be easy to test for once/if I can identify it. Be great if you and others can duplicate what I found. May even find the reaction with the steel will be different depending on the source oil.