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Bio-Diesel and Alternative Fuels Discussion of biodiesel (homegrown or store bought) and other alternative fuels for diesel-powered vehicles.

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Old 11-12-2011, 12:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question W80 in a kerosene heater?

I normally use D2 in my torpedo type 65K BTU "jet" (fan forced) kerosene space heater because of the cost of K1 (close to $5/gal here). It works great in the 65K one, but not too well in my 115K bigger one. It has issues on K1 too, so I guess it's just the heater itself.

The question is has anybody ran W80 (what I run in my truck), or some blend of WMO in one of these heaters? I use these heaters in my 30x40 shop building which also has a wood stove but I hate spending time stoking the fire instead of working for just a few hours. It also takes a long time to heat up on just wood.
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Old 11-12-2011, 08:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I have used my w-80 blends in a Coleman stove and found it worked fine, so it would most probably work in the heater; however, you would want to make sure your shop is well vented, because the fumes from that blend are not likely to be healthy to breath. I have also heard of people running filtered straight waste oil in those torpedo heaters, so you might try that. It might require preheating your oil, like in a two-tank-like system with the oil pipe in front of the heater outlet.
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think the cancer from the fumes wouldn't be worth the low fuel cost
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:40 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I've used my 65K torpedo heater on straight D2 for the past 6 winters in my 30x40 shop w/9ft ceilings and gable vents. It is well insulated except for the cardboard ceiling (I have a friend who worked at a cardboard factory)
The heater won't really do the job of keeping it over 55-60 if it's below 30 outside. In those conditions I have never experienced any really noticeable fumes from running it for extended periods. It is an exceptionally clean burning heater.
If my WMO blend is close the properties of D2 for running in my truck, I don't see why it wouldn't perform similarly in my heater.

I was just guessing that someone here had already tried a WMO blend in their heater and could relate the experience.
It's been unusually warm for mid Nov here in SW Missouri but I'm going to try it in a couple days when we get a cold snap here and post the results. I will start with my current blend of 60% WMO, 20% ATF, 20% RUG.
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:19 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I look forward to your results. I'm scared of the stuff it might put into the air (and the potential instability from rug), but realize that nothing is added by some loudmouth saying that we're all gonna die.

I would be interested in a converted oil furnace using pre warmed WMO as the fuel source. I've seen the plans on the net and it seems like it was working pretty well.
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Old 11-15-2011, 01:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Just picked up a used heater (sounds like it is similar to yours), said it was able to use K1, D2, fuel oil, etc. Anyway, took it home, started it with kerosene, tried w85 and it died as soon as I started pouring it in. Since I have a large supply of free stale gas, I turned the rest of the jug into w50, filled the tank up and restarted. No issues, no fumes (I've always been used to some amount of fumes when running kerosene, but didn't notice any at all for the short time of this test). Haven't ran it since, but I feel there has to be a sweet spot on how much gas is needed for it to be thin enough to feed properly. I still subject the wXX to all the filtering I normally do to use in our old 7.3 assuming that solids may still build up somewhere (on ignitor??) and cause an issue. May not be the case, but what I had was already filtered anyway. Should keep the chill off the shed in NE missouri.
Good luck.
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by '48Chevy6 View Post
I look forward to your results. I'm scared of the stuff it might put into the air (and the potential instability from rug), but realize that nothing is added by some loudmouth saying that we're all gonna die.

I would be interested in a converted oil furnace using pre warmed WMO as the fuel source. I've seen the plans on the net and it seems like it was working pretty well.
I run straight d2 in in these heaters all the time in a large shop. However, D2 and W85 have very different exhaust characteristics and I would not do this myself. Sorry for being a "loudmouth", but I don't think saving money should be the main goal in all aspects of life, and when it comes to your health, why risk it for a couple of bucks?

Conversion of an oil furnace would be a much better idea. I'm a big believer in wood stoves, doesn't get any cheaper than that if you have the land with trees to cut down.
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Well the blend I tried was W70 (1 gal of W80 + 20oz RUG, I hope that calculation was right) + 1/2 gal of D2 I had left. The result of my test was mixed. The heater started up fine @38 deg, ran fine for 30 minutes, seemed to run at about the same temp as D2 judging from the amount of glow on the cone, restarted fine after 5 minutes, ran another 10 minutes.
While I didn't really notice any significant smell of fumes during this time, after going outside and then back in the garage I noticed a bit of light smokey haze in the air.
Not cool.
My next try will be to use an equal part D2 and W70 making the blend ~$2.50/gal, a little more than half the cost of K1. Diesel is now ~$3.79 here. Gas is however $2.96
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jga2z View Post
Well the blend I tried was W70 (1 gal of W80 + 20oz RUG, I hope that calculation was right) + 1/2 gal of D2 I had left. The result of my test was mixed. The heater started up fine @38 deg, ran fine for 30 minutes, seemed to run at about the same temp as D2 judging from the amount of glow on the cone, restarted fine after 5 minutes, ran another 10 minutes.
While I didn't really notice any significant smell of fumes during this time, after going outside and then back in the garage I noticed a bit of light smokey haze in the air.
Not cool.
My next try will be to use an equal part D2 and W70 making the blend ~$2.50/gal, a little more than half the cost of K1. Diesel is now ~$3.79 here. Gas is however $2.96
Thanks for keeping us posted on your experiments. I agree that health issues should never be ignored, but why should gasoline be considered more toxic than kerosene? By they way, you have some cheap fuel in MO. How much is kerosene there? Just so that we can economically compare all levels of this experiment. gasoline here is $3.25/gal, D-2 is $3.75/gal, and Kerosene here is about $5/gal.
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Old 11-24-2011, 04:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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why should gasoline be considered more toxic than kerosene?
I think the concern is excessive fumes from the WMO. I'm a bit concerned with the blend in a heater having a higher % of RUG being perhaps too volatile.
I suppose you could adjust the pump on the heater to increase pressure for a thicker WMO blend. That might make it burn more efficiently. Without a pressure gauge it's quite a bit of trial and error.
I never had a problem at all with fumes or even any hazy air in the shop running D2 in my 65k torpedo heater.
My
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm going to try to build a sludge burner for my "refinery" shop. I have an old barrel stove so there is a chimney to exhaust the fumes. I have heard that you can rig up a drip onto rocks in the bottom of the barrel and it will burn sludge just fine. I'll keep you posted. I should get started on it the next few days.
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
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An update on this blend.
I went with the W70 I had in the heater and added about another gal of D2, making it a ~60/40 W70/D2 blend ~$3/gal cost. I ran it for 30 mins a couple times and found I still had a tiny bit of haze in the air. No noticeable stink though. Not quite good enough I thought.
Well my son got a deer a few days ago and my wife and mother in-law butchered it in the garage Saturday. It was in the upper 30's outside and they ran the heater for about 3 1/2 hours non stop til it ran dry. I didn't witness this myself, but they said it didn't make any haze that they could notice. My Mother in-law has bad asthma and bronchitis and suffered no ill effects.
My guess is that the heater probably warmed up the fuel and made it pump easier after running longer. I'm not sure I want to use any more WMO blend in the heater even if it's cheaper (D2 is $3.63 today). I'd rather save it for the truck as I'm down to about 40gal of WMO.
Stay tuned for more trials if I get another barrel of WMO soon.
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1990 F-350 crew cab 7.3L IDI Banks Sidewinder turbo, E4OD 182,xxx, My First Diesel now gone.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Thinning waste oil with diesel fuel for use in a kerosene heater is not going to help you much, because kerosene is half as viscous as diesel fuel. Try thinning it with gasoline at about 20-25% gas.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:57 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Take a small drum or even beer keg. Place it near/above the wood stove. Run a piece of copper tubing from a valve down around the flue a couple times and into the fire box. Let oil drip right onto the burning wood. Fire is 2x as hot and wood lasts 3x longer with no smoke and almost zero ash.

I have friends heating LARGE shops like this and one heating a 3500sqft house. They are using 2-300gal propane tanks for fire box and load LOTS of wood in the box, when it gets going good, they turn on the oil drip. The big fire box will burn 1 day without oil and 3 days with oil. Not sure how much oil they are using...

Best part(s)? No filtering, no fumes and no gasoline!!

Wanna build a cheap/easy oil drip heater? Google MEN heater and read up!! (lots of designs over the years)

Fwiw, my 60k btu salamander wouldn't run on B25 - and that's with B100 that didn't cloud until below freezing! There is more to the equation than fuel viscosity.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I know rules of hauling kero in tanker are must have papers to prove last load was d2 or kero. They won't load a truck that last hauled gas. Must be a reason they dont want traces of gas in kero. And were talking theres less than 5 gallons left after dropping last load and there going to put 8000 g in.
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