Want to run 50% WVO in a 2000 F250 (7.3)

[Jedgar]

Hey all,

Filled up with 32 gallons petro diesel @ 3.59 yesterday. I've had it with price of petro.

I have a good source of clean WVO and want to start out running 50% blend petro/WVO. A few questions for those that have experience running a 7.3 Powerstroke on WVO:

1. I would like to run 50% with no or minimal mods to my totally trouble-free truck (maybe a good pre-filter). Is this possible or am I looking at problems ?

2. WVO I have access to is fairly clean (Thai restaurant) but I want to filter it well before using. From what I've read, processing should be as follows (as minimum):
- Dump into a drum thru a bag filter (to take out big chunks) then heat in same drum for a few days to drive out most of water.
- Pump and filter thru atleast 2 stages of good filters (30 micron then 5 micron), probably Standyne FM100 or equal, into a separate clean drum.
- Let settle again for atleast a few days before pumping into truck tank. Pump suction from drum needs to pull from atleast 6" off bottom of drum.
- Drain the "dregs" from bottom of both drums atleast periodically.

I need to process only about 40 gallons a month to run my truck. If all goes well, I made trade my gas boat and buy an inboard diesel (cummins 6bt) and run that on WVO ~50% blend too.

I live in a year round warm climate, central Florida, and am in contact with a charter boat captain here that has run a cummins 6bt powered boat over 3,000 hours on 50% WVO blend and has experienced zero problems.

Am I overlooking something ? I've read all about Vegistroke and it sounds great, but I just want to run 50% blend not 100%.

Please advise if you can recommend filters and pumps (by brand & part number) that you can recommend for the type of set-up I am talking about.
Possibly a schematic or description of the set-up. I can buy the parts and put this together myself as I'm fairly handy with tools.

Thanks for any advice or help you can offer.

[CDX825]

You should be good to go. I heard of a guy in florida running %100 without a conversion kit so %50 should be no problem. Alot of people are running the water filters for in your house to filter oil. I seen them on ebay for cheap with any size filter you want included. They were clear to so you could se whats going on inside.

[VegasDiesel]

That's a great idea! I didn't even know you could do that! So, can you do the same 50% mix with WVO and Bio Diesel?

The best filtration I've seen so far is this.

Centrifuges at F2F Filtration Units

[houtxfdcapt]

i have the oc-20 centrifuge and love it,,, its amazing what it pulls out of the oil. in my truck I run a higher % of oil than your going and no problems, its about 30 degrees out this am and it fired right up. pm me and i will send you a link on how to set up the centrifuge. you also have to heat the oil before the centrifuge. it will be in the link...

thanks...

[firemediceric]

For me, the key has been letting the WVO settle for as long as possible after mist washing, draining and then heating. It allows the filters on the processing station to last much longer.

[houtxfdcapt]

thanks firemediceric, yes you guys that are asking about the centrifuge, i always let my oil settle out for as long as i can before i run it thru that centrifuge, im always amazed at what settles out of that stuff. I use firemediceric's set up to a TEE. thanks again eric for all the help...

[airfooter]

Originally Posted by Jedgar

Am I overlooking something ?

Yes. First, there are several parts of your stock fuel system that do not like VO. Second, VO and diesel do not stay in solution very well. The VO can settle out and will rest on the bottom of the tank. Your factory fuel pick up is right on the bottom of the tank. This means that in the event VO settles, your engines first gulp will be straight VO that settled in the fuel filter, followed by more straight VO that is sucked off the bottom of your tank until you drive around a bit. Your truck will 'run just fine' during all of this, but poor combustion of the un-heated VO will lead to carbon build-up in the combustion chamber. (Biodiesel and VO stay in solution much better, btw!)

Now , back to the parts that don't like VO. The PSD fuel pump exposes the fuel to the inards of the pump motor. Among those inards is the copper windings, etc for the motor. Copper and VO don't get along, and a reaction called polymerization can take place rendering the pump useless and possibly plugging filters downstream. I'm not sure if its a coating or the material the fuel bowl is made from, but a reaction takes place in there that creates a 'scum' residue on the metal surfaces of the filter. Also, I have seen a failed FPR in a PSD fuel bowl that ran VO 'blends'. The inards were basically dissolved by the VO.

All that said, I have a PSD fuel pump in straight VO service for 55,000 miles and I know there have been lots of people claiming success doing exactly what you propose. I just worry that almost NONE of those people ever come back to tell their horror stories, or simply sell the POS to someone who may never know what happened.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but if you want to run VO safely, and still see the miles your PSD was intended for - I would continue to research and learn WHY sucessful designs are sucessful. I promise that I am WAAAAY ahead money-wise, even after a significant investment in a conversion. AND, I can drive anywhere, in any climate, and still burn my 'cheap' fuel.

Good luck, and please keep us posted.

[Jedgar]

Well...some excellent points/issues brought up. I'm new to this, with no actual experience, but have done alot of reading on the subject. Seems to be some contradictions in the above messages (and in the online sources I've read):

airfooter: you say petro and VO don't stay in solution very well. What is commercially available "B20" blend anyway but petro blended with 20% VO ? You also say
VO and copper don't play well together, but I see you used quite a bit of copper tubing in the piping on the conversion on your truck.

houtxfdcapt: you sent me to a link (xyzworks.com) that thoroughly details use of the OC-20 centrifuge for filtering and de-watering (no misting washing) yet say you follow firemedicerics "set up to a tee" and firemediceric says he thoroughly mist washes.


I really like what I've read about the Vegistroke conversion, but on his website he seems to recommend blending WVO with petro to avoid polymerization.

I appreciate all the advice you guys are offering but I get a little confused with all the different approaches people are using.

Thanks again for all your help and I definitely don't want to do something stupid that's going to cause problems with my truck.

[houtxfdcapt]

"houtxfdcapt: you sent me to a link (xyzworks.com) that thoroughly details use of the OC-20 centrifuge for filtering and de-watering (no misting washing) yet say you follow firemedicerics "set up to a tee" and firemediceric says he thoroughly mist washes."





i mist wash all my stuff, and for an experiment, there is one guy that mixes one pound of baking soda with five gallons of water then pours it into his settling drum and mixes it up real good and comes back about eight days later and it settles out nice. im going to try that too.

yes sunwizard wanted to really test the centrifuge so for the testing he took oil straight from the dumpsters and pushed it thru the centrifuge and then had a lab test his samples at different passes. just to see how well it would clean and dewater the oil.

[airfooter]

Originally Posted by Jedgar

airfooter: you say petro and VO don't stay in solution very well. What is commercially available "B20" blend anyway but petro blended with 20% VO ? You also say
VO and copper don't play well together, but I see you used quite a bit of copper tubing in the piping on the conversion on your truck.

I really like what I've read about the Vegistroke conversion, but on his website he seems to recommend blending WVO with petro to avoid polymerization.

I appreciate all the advice you guys are offering but I get a little confused with all the different approaches people are using.

Thanks again for all your help and I definitely don't want to do something stupid that's going to cause problems with my truck.

No, B20 is not VO and diesel, it is BIODIESEL and diesel - big difference. And FWIW, my crude experiments w/blending indicate VO and bio-d stay in solution much better than diesel and VO. I have a friend who has good success blending B20 and VO, but I'm not sure of th ratios.

I have (2) 12" peices of 1/4" copper between my manifold block and the factory fuel lines. VO is in contact w/this for a MOMENT immeadiately before it is burned, this is why it has not been a problem. I have had the steel line to replace it with sitting on the workbench since about a week after I did the conversion! The other copper you saw was probably the wrap around VO filter, it has coolant running thru it.

Report on Oxidation and Polymerization of Vegetable Oil - Forums I wish I had a direct link to Mr. Beatty's report. This guy has degrees in chemistry and physics and has been in the VO business for 25yrs. He has a lab dedicated to VO at his disposal. VO as a fuel is now a hobby for him, but being a scientist, he had to answer the polymerization question scientifically. Please disregard the useless reteric of the 'jester' and some of the other non-productive posts in this thread.

What FN74/Vegistroke found in his testing was that some petro-diesel added to VO helped prevent polymerization. Last I saw, he was trying to determine how little diesel it took to mitigate the reaction.

I agree there is alot of confusing information available. It seems that the ones who claim to know the most, often are the least informed. When confronted, they are naturally inclined to defend their ideas, even in light of new information. It doesn't help that folks see this as a cash cow and are cashing in on the fact there is not good information readily available yet. "They" are allegedly selling hundreds of VO conversion kits/mth - with COPPER heat exchangers heating whole fuel tanks!! We know for a FACT this causes rapid polymerization, but how can hundreds of kits/mth be wrong?

KEEP RESEARCHING, find actual people with a bunch of VO miles to talk to. The best sources will be folks that have done several conversions or modified their systems as they learned what works and doesn't. The truth is, there is still alot to learn and anyone who claims to have it all figured out is misguided.

[hheynow]

Originally Posted by airfooter

KEEP RESEARCHING, find actual people with a bunch of VO miles to talk to. The best sources will be folks that have done several conversions or modified their systems as they learned what works and doesn't. The truth is, there is still alot to learn and anyone who claims to have it all figured out is misguided.

+1
Real world experience can't be learned online.
Ask away...

[Homemade WRX]

so when people are blending the two; is the blending process done outside of the truck/tank or do they poor in clean WVO at the pump and then pump the diesel on top, hoping it mixes up nicely?

[airfooter]

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

so when people are blending the two; is the blending process done outside of the truck/tank or do they poor in clean WVO at the pump and then pump the diesel on top, hoping it mixes up nicely?

Hoping is a good choice of words! hehehehe, I have added diesel or bio-d to my VO tank, sometimes before and sometimes after VO. I live in 'the mountains' so a little spirited driving up and down and around the curves, combined w/plenty of hope, may get me blended pretty good.

I experiment w/blends, etc. using gatorade bottles I place in the back of the truck. They seal up pretty good and can stand quite a bit of abuse while still being able to see thru them. I was very suprised at how little 'mixing' takes place during normal driving. The fuel sloshes back and forth, but very little top to bottom agitation takes place. I have traveled thousands of miles w/cubies and found stuff that still managed to settle out of VO!

[hheynow]

DING DING DING I MAY HAVE A WINNER!
Someone should invent a tank snake that will agitate the blended fuels once inserted down the filler neck to the tank.

[MeanMrMustard]

The fuel should mix in the tank just fine as the system returns excess pumped fuel back to the tank, always circulating it.