Wash??? Not sure what it does to biodiesel

[bluenavigator]

I am not sure how "wash" working. All I know is that it is all bubbles of air pump from the fish air stone and what does it do to the biodiesel? I'm still researching this stuff before I do the first small batch.

[Ford_Forgotton]

Washing does two things. Using water, it allows for the removal of SOAPS (byproduct of lye reacting with water). This helps clear the biodiesel up if it looks foggy. It also helps to neutralize any un-reacted methoxide in the bio-D that might form glycerin and settle into your tank after a few weeks of sitting.

If even after washing, your Ph is still a little off, you can use a very small amount of vinegar to bring your bio-d into a neutral state. Dont use too much tho, as that with make your bio-d go off in the other direction on the Ph scale. The vinegar is really measured in spoonfuls. It doesnt take much. Some even dont recommend vinegar at all as it may break the emulsification of the water/lye/soaps and make it harder to wash them out.

Expirement.

[IanOMechura]

The bubbles float up to the top of the mixture and trap soap, glycerin, lye, etc on there way up. When they burst at the top the water sinks back to the bottom carrying with it the contaminants that it captured. after a while the water has soaked up all the contaminants it can handle and must be changed. in some cases you may be able to recapture some methanol out of the waste water.

Ian

[bluenavigator]

Water? how much water is too much? That's where I found about water part but not sure because it might make biodiesel unuseable.

[Ford_Forgotton]

water falls out of the bio-D. It wont mix with it!

aprox 1/3 water to 2/3 bio-D is the preferred ratio, using the bubble wash method.

When the water begins to turn milky, drain it off and add fresh water. It may take 2-4 washings to get a clean wash.

Once your done, decant (siphon) off the bio-D from the top, and stop just before reaching the water level. Drain off the water and the little bit of Bio-D thats left with it, and use it as your FIRST wash of your next batch of Bio-D. That way you never lose any Bio-D as wastewater.

Water sinks, it wont mix with the oil.

[lynxpilot]

Blue,

There have been some good discussions about water and bioD over at the www.tdiclub.com website in the past. Unfortunately, many of the arguments are ill-informed.

Water, when allowed to be bubbled up from the bottom of the bioD or mist sprayed from the top down, will remove any water-soluble contaminants in the bioD as well as suspended glycerine and excess methanol.

Biodiesel does in fact absorb a tiny amount of water (by dissolution) which equates to something like 700 or 800 parts per million. When fully saturated, the amount of water in biodiesel is in excess of what has been determined by ASTM to be the maximum water content. This may or may not be a dilemma, only the fuel pump will tell. Washing will no doubt bring your biodiesel to the saturation point. On the other hand, methanol and glycerine are both soluble in biodiesel and water is soluble in methanol and glycerine. I'd almost bet that the net water content in washed biodiesel is probably lower than unwashed for that reason, in that glycerine and methanol will enable the biodiesel to hold more water than water-saturated pure washed biodiesel. For that reason, I wouldn't hesitate to wash. It is kind of a pain in the butt though.

First and foremost, your system has to be designed to bottom drain or decant wash water such that it doesn't have traps where it can't be fully drained. A pump is the best example, as I learned. My pump was at the very bottom of the system and when I drained, about half of the centrifuge chamber of the pump was un-drainable. Holding that much water was enough to create an emulsion the next time I pumped. Once I had the emulsion, it took ages for the water to settle back out.

I used the misters you see in hot climates around outdoor patio areas that they use to cool the immediate area. That seemed to me to be the most practical system when compared to bubblers. I ran the misters until my tank was just about full, drained the water, and repeated until the bottom water started to lose its milky appearance. I think this turned out to be about 4 washes.

Hope that answers some!

[Rex_Reimer]

Are there any requirements on the water itself? I have extremely hard water and I am trying to figure out if I can use my well water or if I have to buy water to use for washing.

Thanks.

[lynxpilot]

[ QUOTE ]
Are there any requirements on the water itself? I have extremely hard water and I am trying to figure out if I can use my well water or if I have to buy water to use for washing.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd guess that it wouldn't be an issue. Remember, you will be draining the water off and whatever was in it will also be drained off.

[GPorter]

Could you reheat the Bio D after washing to get rid of any water like when you first heat the WVO?

[Ford_Forgotton]

[ QUOTE ]
Could you reheat the Bio D after washing to get rid of any water like when you first heat the WVO?

[/ QUOTE ]

The answer is YES.

However if your trying for a "minimum resources required" approach, using additional heat to evap the water as a post wash stage is considered a bit of a waste of resources (electricity or whatever your heat source is powered by).

HOWEVER, if you could create some form of Solar Oven that could heat your fuel up enough to evap the water without using a "produced" heat source (wood, electricity, gas) then your back to your "minimum resource" product.

Remember, the hardcore penny pinchers are trying to avoid using any more electricity, wood, oil, coal, gas etc then is absolutely needed.

[GPorter]

I am more concerned with water in the fuel than the cost of propane to heat it. No water and a ph of 7 is my goal.

[lynxpilot]

I've heard some say that heating bioD can form diglycerides and triglycerides, which can be harmful to the fuel injectors when burned as fuel. In my case, in the summer it is generally over 100 degrees for about 5 or 6 months almost every day, so venting a bioD storage tank that sits in the sun almost assures no water. I seriously think, though, that you really don't have to worry too much about it. I'm convinced that a tank or two of dinoD every once in a while will purge the system of any water residue. I've heard some say of bioD burning cars that the fuel injection pumps are generally in better shape than those with dino-only burning cars. I'd only worry about burning B100 and then letting the car sit for a long time with potential water sitting stagnant in the pump. There are a lot of sooth-sayers on the issue of burning bioD, but I have yet to see credible evidence that it is harmful and usually what I read and see is actually quite the opposite. It certainly helps keep the intake clear on EGR/CCV-equipped vehicles and doesn't smoke a bit when jumping on the throttle like your typical diesel.

[wellrooted]

The real question is...do the soaps in the BD really harm the engine??? I've heard lots of concern yet I haven't heard one story of an engine being ruined by using unwashed BD. It seems to me as if the process is a real pain in the butt for what amounts to a very small gain in quality, but that's just my .02

[Dak]

Wouldn't a vehicles water separator get rid of the water??

I thought all diesels had water separators? I wouldn't want to dump a gallon of water in the fuel, but I would assume a little water in BioD would just get separated out.

In the case of the 6.0 cause the water in fuel light to go off and the ensuing PITA to drain it.

Thoughts?

[lynxpilot]

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't a vehicles water separator get rid of the water??

I thought all diesels had water separators? I wouldn't want to dump a gallon of water in the fuel, but I would assume a little water in BioD would just get separated out.

In the case of the 6.0 cause the water in fuel light to go off and the ensuing PITA to drain it.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

My 6.0 obviously has the HFCM and I had a few batches that lit it off. It invariably turned out to be glycerine, which in turn will invariably have dissolved water. The TDI, however, only has a static centrifugal function in the filter and will remove a lot less. Either way, I know I was getting water and/or glycerine and neither one did any damage that I can tell. I'm sure that neither filter is 100 percent effective and some quantity of water will pass the filters or conditioning modules and make its way through the system. Oh well. I'm not too worried yet. When I have to pay 3K for a new TDI fuel pump I'll scream it to all the world.