What about acetone (minute amount) in Bio?

[MaxHuey]

Very very very interesting discussion here: http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbt...art=1&vc=1

[Ford_Forgotton]

I didnt like the direction that thread was going from the start. ACETONE?!?! Propane and NOS is one thing, but paint remover is another!

I know some of the links that Girl_Mark has posted to other bulletin boards, they use a combination of Veggie Oil, Diesel, and GASOLINE! (They call it RUG, I think it means "regular unleaded gasoline").

I know some of the Older diesels would recommend mixing in gasoline for cold weather applications, but I would be converned that gasoline would have an "advanced timing" effect that would lead to detonation and blown rods. THe PMR rods in the later 'strokes do NOT like advanced timing.

[Spencnaz]

Read like a recipe for disaster not to mention connecting rods puked all over the road way.

It would seem that acetone would be harmful for the cetane rating of the fuel.

[MaxHuey]

Before you guys start jumping all over the place, please read the web posting with an open mind. I am not saying it is good, bad or anything in between but I always look into possibility iwht an open mind, then try to find out why it work or not work. This is what makes life interesting.

Here, they are talking 2 ~ 3 oz. mixed into 10 Gallon, an extremely minute amount to be considered harmful by any means. What the author was explaining is the acetone change the molecular structure of the diesel to promote more complete combustion (true or not, I can't tell because I am not a molecular chemist). Quite possibly the acetone is not an acetone anymore when mixed into deisel (again we need a chemist to look into the addition of the chemical formula of the two to see what the resultant is)

Obviously, there are more questions than answers at this time but I am willing to bet 6 oz. of acetone in a full tank of diesel will not be able to hurt anything. As for the mileage gain, who knows?

Here is link to the professor's web site: http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/additive.htm

[Spencnaz]

I read this site and it's preamble just seemed to have an axe to grind against the oil companies.

Remember too, that just saying 'a reader in NY in 2004' doesnt make a verifiable source for scientific or engineering study. Where is the peer review process in these experiments?

Until I see an independent report from like a university, i'm going to stick with biodiesel and have a happily purring engine running on a renewable non-toxic fuel.

[ToddT]

Whenever I read about these conspiracies from the big oil companies and the big automakers where they are squelching new technologies for the sake of greed, I take it all with a great big grain of salt.

Many oil companies make all sorts of other products... including acetone.

Have you noticed that Shell and BP are both getting big into the alternative energy business? They have solar and wind power divisions. They are see themselves as providers of energy- whether it be gasoline, diesel, wind or solar. Their goal is making a profit, not just sucking crude oil out of the ground.

That isn't to say use of acetone may not have some merit. For most folks, water injection isn't appropriate. Neither is biodiesel. Like you said... let's wait to hear from a university study or from somebody like Gale Banks. Or... David Lott... or Bob Riley... or any one of our other dieselstop vendors.

Todd
Todd T

[KHB1]

MaxHuey and Toddt smart posts Spencnaz how many ounces of Red devel lye have you used in your tank (other name for it is caustic soda)
KHB1 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Spencnaz]

I am well aware of the use of caustic soda in biodiesel production. Properly 'washed' biodiesel does not contain this compound. In fact after mixing with Methanol, Sodium Hydroxide no longer exists in solution anyway.

The purpose of washing the fuel is to completely remove any reactants from the fuel to prevent chemical attack of seals in the fuel system.

The reason I stated that acetone is a bad idea is that it is a very very power organic solvent with a very high affinity for electrons in other materials, especially rubbers and other organic compounds.

When I read the report about the use of acetone, I got the feeling that is person had a real chip on their shoulder against the oil companies and was fostering this grudge by stating his case for the use of acetone.

The combative tone of said treatise only confirmed my suspicions that such an additive to diesel fuel was not fully confirmed by independent test or verfication, but on empirical data.

Until such data from independant sources becomes availiable, I will use a pH neutral fuel in my vehicle, prolonging its life and sparing my pocketbook from repair bill shock.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]

[teester]

Well whats the verdict? Is the mileage improvement noticeable? I read much of that thread and some were testing before it got locked down. Just wondering if I should try it in my oldest van, an old carbuerated 6cyl van. My gas bill for work vans runs around $6-800/month. 10% improvement would help a bit. 20% would be a home run!

Also noticed people were using 2oz to 10 gal. with a slight increase in mileage. Is anyone testing with 1oz? The guy said that using too much would hurt fuel mileage.

[MaxHuey]

After many nights of reading thru many many other forums, I have yet to see anyone trying it on a diesel. Most results posted are from older gasser vehicles. Just about everyone who have tried it mentioned something about the smoothness of the engine. About 70% said they experience increase in mileage from about 10% to as high as 28% but non of which got 35% increase. Non had reported damaged to any rubber or plastic parts as cautioned by members here and other forums. This is expected as you can see the minute amount of acetone involved, infact, I would have suspected that by the time the acetone is mixed into the fuel, the chemical reaction would have change it so much that it would not have any characteristic of acetone anymore. It is also very interesting to see how each specific group of people reacted to this idea. As for the forum members here that had spiked their tank with acetone, I hope they can find this thread and post back their results.

[83smoker]

i have just recently tried this in my 83 6.9 i put 5 oz. in a full tank along with my normal lucas. i have noticed the engine runs smoother and a little quieter.it also has nowhere near as much black smoke. as for mileage i cant tell ya as my speedo and odo do not work at this point.

[JOAT]

I don't buy the acetone hype, but try it in Bio. I'm sure you won't hurt anything at the recommended levels. It hasn't done a thing for me at any level whenever I've got annoyed enough by the hype to try it. I am planning to give it a go (among other things) in WVO at some point to see if it helps atomization and MPG.

FWIW I have some parts in 3% acetone to #2, no change in several months. Pretty confident by the time any parts fail it will have been so long you wouldn't know if it was normal failure or the acetone.

Check with Girl Mark or Dana Linscott. I'm sure others have tried it in Bio, and they would probably know who.

FWIW, Acetone is relatively mellow as solvents go. It absorbs water great, and carries the water away as it evaporates, a useful feature. Undiluted it attacks some materials but not anything drastic compared to many other common houshold chemicals. It is part of natural human metabolism, and is a byproduct of engine combustion too.

[Suns_PSD]

I've been quietly adding Acetone to my #2 ever since that thread started.

Basically, in the end I picked up about .5 mpg consistently. I have also after several thousand miles rebuilt my entire fuel system (nothing wrong w/ it, just making some upgrades) and swapped out my injectors and everything looked just fine. The extremely small percentage of "A" will have no bad effects on your PSD.

At this point I run it just because it runs SO MUCH quieter w/ the A in the engine.

I currently mix up 16 oz of A w/ about 4 oz of Torco smokeless 2 stroke oil. Then I use approximately 1.5 oz of this mixture per 10 gallons of diesel.

I plan to keep doing it to. When you dump it in you will wonder if such a small amount can make any difference but as soon as it hits those injectors you will know.

[JOAT]

I've heard alot of the SD guys say it makes the engine quieter. Never noticed that on the '95. Just one of those things you have to try for yourself.

[ToddT]

Are you running WVO as well as the Acetone? I'd be very interested in the appearance of your injectors if this is the case. I've wondered if we are encouraging some accumulation of carbon and gunk on the injectors every time we switch to veggie before it is quite up to temp... or when we haven't done a complete purge. So far, I've only forgotten to switch at the end of the day once or twice. But, does it add up as contamination on the injectors therefore screwing up the spray pattern?

I have some great carbon removers that work well in gasoline engines. The problem with one application years ago was that it dislodged so much carbon the exhaust valves got messed up. Will it work in diesel? I sure hope so. If anyone wants a sample to test, let me know.

It sounds as if a splash of acetone may do the same thing. If the injectors weren't so hard to remove, I'd try some tests. But, this ain't like pulling spark plugs to check the condition of the combustion.

Tell us about this Torco 2-stroke oil. Would a regular 2-stroke oil for bikes work? I've said my truck exhaust reminds me of running 'bean oil' in MX bikes back in the '70s. As I recall, Castrol used a vegetable based oil for their pre-mix back then. Makes sense.

So, you've picked up a bit of mileage. That doesn't mean nearly as much any more now that I'm using grease. But, it is good to know. That just makes my 60 gallon tank last 30 miles farther.

Thanks for your post. Please tell us more.

Todd T