What is so bad about bio/soy diesel?

[Southpaw77]

I'm new to diesels, and I love em already! I have been researching the bio diesel thing, and in my town we have a co-op that sells B20 it's about .20 more expensive than petro diesel. I filled my tank for the first time this week, I notice two things right off the bat, less smell, smoother/quieter idle.

With all the great thing about bio/soy diesel - why is it not everywhere? What is taking so long for every gas pump in Americal to have it? Are there any potential problems w/ using this type of fuel 100 of the time?

From what I understand about bio - is that you don't have to add a cetane booster to it. Just the anti-gel in the winter.

Thanks for the input

[VD350]

its just slow to get everywhere is the conclusion i have come to. There are places in NY that have it but no where in PA me within 100miles that I know of. Besides the fact that it will gel up faster you can run it all the time. Its good stuff

[Spencnaz]

There are three major issues with biodiesel for the consumer.

1. It's an incredible solvent and will de-gunk your fuel system, clogging fuel filters.

2. This is related to the first issue, it attacks rubber compounds making them soft. Older diesel drivers would be well advised to put in some biodiesel compatible fuel line in their rides.

3. It's not so hot in cold weather. Biodiesel derived from soy will start to cloud and gel up around 40F. Now a B20 mix will do just fine with cold weather additives that are used for petro diesel. There are no widely available anti gels out there for B100. You will have to mix with either #2 diesel or kerosene in really cold weather.

The reason you're not seeing biodiesel everywhere is the fact that there aren't enough manufacturing plants around to meet the demand.

Washington State (where I live) is the largest consumer of biodiesel in the continental US right now. But, there are several large scale plants popping up all over the US right now and the number of them is going to increase.

I'm a homebrewer of biodiesel so it's not such a big issue. I typically make biodiesel during the winter, store it and run it all during spring and summer or run a mix with petro diesel.

[Southpaw77]

Has there been any discussion about this company: http://www.dieselsecret.com/index.html

seems like they have a great homebrew kit that doesn't include any harsh chemicals. Kero, Unleaded, mystery oil, used corn oil and their additive. mix and use 10 minutes or less. i'm wondering if this is too good to be true.

[Murphy2000]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Southpaw77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has there been any discussion about this company: http://www.dieselsecret.com/index.html

seems like they have a great homebrew kit that doesn't include any harsh chemicals. Kero, Unleaded, mystery oil, used corn oil and their additive. mix and use 10 minutes or less. i'm wondering if this is too good to be true.

</div></div>

Now why would you stick that link in this thread? Diesel secret is the biggest scam going.

DIESEL SECRET IS A SCAM

[Spencnaz]

Diesel Secret is the worst scam to be foisted on the American consumer since laetrile (if you know what that was you're pretty smart).

Diesel Secret has done thousands of dollars of damage to vehicles and yet they refuse to fess up to the havoc it causes with diesel engines.

Would you put xylene, toluene and mothballs in your expensive computer controlled, direct injected diesel engine you just paid 45k for?

I think not.

[VD350]

When a Company Makes this statement
"Yes we use petroleum in our fuel. In all fairness, though, consider that biodiesel contains 15-25% methanol. A substance of equal or greater danger to people and the environment, yet it "earns" the name “bio.” Biodiesel is 75-85% veggie oil, ours is 87%."

They dont know how to make it properly, nor do they know what they are talking about. True Bio-Diesel has been washed therefore having everything but the oil removed


And By laetrile are you referring to the pill that is supposed to have "cure" like qualities for cancer, yet has cyanide in it?

[Southpaw77]

now i know, like i said i'm new to this diesel thing, it's good to know.

[Spencnaz]

Yes I'm referring to that wonder cure for cancer that is 'derived' from apricot pits the so called Vitamin B17.

And yes, properly made biodiesel has no methanol in it. After it's been washed and dried, there is a minuscule to no methanol or corrosive elements left in the fuel.

Diesel Secret is a scam, period.

[macmaniac1]

how good is bio? It can burn as clean in an older diesel as petro in newer dpf vehicles. i have seen an article in the paper in which a bio-diesel plant showed a school bus running on 100% bio-diesel to the president using the same white cloth test as used by a dpf manufacturer when they showed off their product also on a school bus. I read an article that if we had a cleaner type of diesel available everywhere like bio-diesel that their would be no need for dpf's.
why aren't their more bio stations?
petro companies can't make money!
dems are paying some farmers not to grow crops. Instead of incouraging them to grow renewable energy crops.
also if all available land was used to grow renewable crops. We still could not produce enough renewable fuel for everybody to use. Why? not enough farmable land left in U.S. with millions of acres dissapearing each year to housing and industrial construction.

[Sparkydm]

"Why? not enough farmable land left in U.S. with millions of acres dissapearing each year to housing and industrial construction."

That's why I try to keep track of what's going on with
diesel made from algae. You avoid the "aerable" land problem and
some are building commercial sized plants. Imagine, instead of
a refinery you have an algae plant. Not the open pond type either. Making a major dent in imports wouldn't be a problem once they're developed.

[F350_6]

Biodiesel is a solvent that can clog your fuel system if you have gunk in your tank. It will eat rubber hoses and seals in older models, but the main problems are (were) a lack of uniformity of Biodiesel. ASTM standards have helped, but a guy making it in his garage may or may not make good fuel. There is also a slight increase in NOX emissions which could be an issue with the 2010 EPA regulations on new motors. We also have LSD & ULSD diesel in the market place now, and fuel stations just don't have enough tanks to offer a variety of fuels.

As production capacities increase I would expect to see it more available, but I think many companies are still waiting to see what crop or product will be the most economical fuel producer before investing too much in factories.

[Spencnaz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: F350_6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ASTM standards have helped, but a guy making it in his garage may or may not make good fuel.

We also have LSD & ULSD diesel in the market place now, and fuel stations just don't have enough tanks to offer a variety of fuels.

</div></div>

Most homebrewers (including your's truly) are meeting and exceeding ASTM D6751 and BQ9000 standards regularly. I would challenge any commercial supplier to test my homebrewed fuel against their product.

A recent study by the National Biodiesel Board determined that nearly half of the commercial suppliers of biodiesel didn't even come close to meeting the standards set out in D6751 for free glycerin content and other factors.

Homebrewers are very careful about their processes, if something goes wrong with their fuel they only have themselves to blame [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif[/img] There is one simple test called the 3/27 test that is very quick and effective on washed and unwashed biodiesel.

The issue of stores selling biodiesel with ULSD and tankage is a moot one. Biodiesel is totally miscible with all forms of diesel. In fact many truck stops just had to keep an eye on their filtration after mixing in biodiesel for the obvious reason of removing contaminants.

[F350_6]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spencnaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most homebrewers (including your's truly) are meeting and exceeding ASTM D6751 and BQ9000 standards regularly. I would challenge any commercial supplier to test my homebrewed fuel against their product.

Homebrewers are very careful about their processes.

The issue of stores selling biodiesel with ULSD and tankage is a moot one. Biodiesel is totally miscible with all forms of diesel. </div></div>

I wasn't trying to imply homebrewers did not know how to make fuel properly. I'm fully aware that a home brew is capable of exceeding most commercially available fuels. However, home brew is also capable of failing miserably. (See dieselsecret post above)

I'm aware that Bio will mix with any diesel. Most of the truck stops where I used to get biodiesel used to offer regular dino and B20. They now carry ULSD and LSD. Since they only have 2 tanks to pump from the biodiesel has lost out.

[VD350]

Diesel Secret is not home brew, dont mix the two. Its strained oil with BS chemicals in it. Your basically cutting the Veggie with a product that supposedly makes it "act" like real diesel. Straining oil and mixing kerosene with it would be no different in principle.

And there is no LSD anymore unless you have some stock piled.
Everything in '07 went to ULSD, even red fuel is ULSD.