Well, finally got to work on the tank. I thought it would be pretty easy to fit a good sized tank under the truck. Well reality is starting to set in. Looks like my tank will be a bit less then 40 gallons, and it will be pretty snug requiring some notching for clearance at the top of the tank.
The tank is 10" x 10" x 90". This will hang down about as low as the stock plastic tank does on my 2000 SB. Mounted to the outside of the frame on the passenger side. (I could make a mirror image copy of the tank and get another 40 gallons on the drivers side, but have no plans to do so. One could also remove the spare tire and put a tank back there.)
I was looking at my buddies long bed 4x4, and it looks like he has a bit more room for longer tank. On my short bed I'm using all of the space from the back of the front wheel well all the way back to the rear spring hanger.
Anyhow, I'm making the tank from 14 gauge CR steel. I'll be TIG welding the seams. Once the tank is done it will be sloshed with an aircraft grade fuel tank slosh sealant. I'll test the slosh sealant with veggie just to make sure it is happy. We have used slosh sealants in steel tanks in the past with great results. No issues ever. But this tank will be very hard to slosh as it is 7-1/2 feet long and has a number of baffles.
Current plans for tank heating is a tube in a tube layout. The heating tube will be a piece of 1" .120 wall tube that runs the length of the tank. The baffles all slip onto this tube. Inside the tube will be a 1/2" (maybe as small as 1/4") tube that will be my fuel pickup. All wet connections will be AN fittings.
I ordered up a VDO fuel sender, and the very next day I understand the mechanical fuel senders have issues with veggie oil.. Arggh. I might spend the $60 on one of the eletrical (electronic?) senders with no moving parts. Thoughts?
first I've heard of the tank senders having an issue...I'm intersted
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'00 F250 7.3L, 4x4, 6-spd, SCT X3, ATTA 90 gallon tank/toolbox, Air Lift Loadlifter 5000 kit. WVO kit in the making...now if I could just finish getting the CANbus code written for that HE431VE.
one thing i am not clear on is do you turn your diesel pump off after you start your veggi pump or do you let it run. the one post here made it sound like you let it run and it will return to the tank from the factory filter. if so why would you let the pump run instead of killing power to it and then start back up to do your purge.
__________________ early 99 white lariat. leveling kit with 35" procomps, 4 inch from turbo back, dp tuner (80-120), aeromotive fuel pump and reg return, tymar intake, BTS valve body and tci converter.
coming soon big injectors, big oil, and turbo
89 diesel jetta running b100 with 250,000 on the clock
one thing i am not clear on is do you turn your diesel pump off after you start your veggi pump or do you let it run. the one post here made it sound like you let it run and it will return to the tank from the factory filter. if so why would you let the pump run instead of killing power to it and then start back up to do your purge.
You are correct on both accounts.
I currently let the diesel pump run. Thus it is always up and running should there be an issue with the veggie.
At some point I'll add a pressure switch that will turn off the diesel pump when their is good pressure from the veggie side. Just have not gotten around to that end of things.
Should be getting some new parts in the shipping tomorrow. Most important will be an accurate fuel pressure gauge that will be mounted inside the cab. This single gauge can tell you a good deal about the veggie system. Is the pump running? Is the filter plugging? I currently have a junk one located under the hood.. Useful when the hood is open...
What are you going to be getting for a fuel pressure gauge? I was looking around a bit at them but wasn't sure if they would hold up to the (hopeful) 170ish degrees of the veggie. I emailed autometer about there's, and the best I got back was that they "should"(?) be OK for that kind of temp.
Also, you said your tank is steel? What is CR steel? sorry if that's a dumb question. All the research I said told me to stay away from steel tanks, unless it's stainless. I actually just last week got a quote for having a similar tank built in aluminum to go in place of my stock rear tank on my 95 CC long bed, about 40 gals as well. Was a very reasonable quote, actually cheaper than any RDS in bed tanks.
What are you going to be getting for a fuel pressure gauge? I was looking around a bit at them but wasn't sure if they would hold up to the (hopeful) 170ish degrees of the veggie. I emailed autometer about there's, and the best I got back was that they "should"(?) be OK for that kind of temp.
Also, you said your tank is steel? What is CR steel? sorry if that's a dumb question. All the research I said told me to stay away from steel tanks, unless it's stainless. I actually just last week got a quote for having a similar tank built in aluminum to go in place of my stock rear tank on my 95 CC long bed, about 40 gals as well. Was a very reasonable quote, actually cheaper than any RDS in bed tanks.
I used a cheap oil pressure gauge for the cheap-o unit I was using under the hood. It was an autogage or something like that from the local auto parts store. It was a 100 PSI mechanical unit. I am not a big fan of mechanical gauges, so kept it under the hood. Anyhow, after a few engine starts the gauge was tweaked from the high pressure spikes we see. I'm not sure how high these spikes are, but they are up there. Anyhow, the gauge still showed me the difference between diesel and veggie PSI levels, but you no longer knew what the PSI actually was.
This time I'm going with a digital fuel pressure gauge with a sending unit that is rated to 145 PSI or so. Still probably not enough PSI, but I think the electrical sender will not be tweaked by the over pressure. We shall see.
CR Steel is Cold Rolled Steel. It is a common steel from a metal shop. It is a much cleaner steel then Hot Rolled. When new it looks kind of like stainless, but of course this has a fair amount of carbon, so will rust over time.
How much was the quote for the fuel tank? Considering the coast of aluminum or stainless these days just the cost of the materials is pretty high. My local metal supplier would have wanted over $200 just for a sheet of aluminum for this sized tank, they have high prices, but you get the idea.
CR Steel is Cold Rolled Steel. It is a common steel from a metal shop. It is a much cleaner steel then Hot Rolled. When new it looks kind of like stainless, but of course this has a fair amount of carbon, so will rust over time.
How much was the quote for the fuel tank? Considering the coast of aluminum or stainless these days just the cost of the materials is pretty high. My local metal supplier would have wanted over $200 just for a sheet of aluminum for this sized tank, they have high prices, but you get the idea.
-Wayne
Have you done any researching into the effect of veggie on the CR steel? Again... I was leaning towards a steel tank, but any and everyone I talked told me no no no. Apparently there is a reaction between the heated veggie and the unfinished steel, and you get what they call "chicken skin", or a layer of polymerized veggie oil that floats on top of the oil. Over time this will obviously get into your filters, pumps, and injectors. That alone makes the extra price of the aluminum more than worth it.
I was quoted 450-500 for the tank completely built. That was a rough estimate, but based on materials and the shape and size I want, that should be right about where it comes out. I'm going to use a hotfox to heat the oil, so that will be extra, and install a sending unit (prolly isspro). Other than that all I need is a fitting for a return line, and a filler tube in the side. Then I figure I'll just get some universal type 2" rubber tube from napa and build a filler neck to the rear fuel door in the bed.
All said and done it should make for a super nice, clean install. If all goes the way I'm hoping, I don't think anyone will be able to tell the truck has a veggie system (aside from the smell). I've already got 5 aftermarket gauges in and around the dash, so I don't think a few extras will throw anyone off
I spent another 6 hours working on mine yesterday. I probably will have 20-30 hours into mine before it is done, and a fair bit of money once you add up fittings, fuel sender, gauge, materials, etc. Mine will basically have a built in hotfox though, so some savings there.
Steel and veggie oil - Well my buddy has been running a similar system to mine for a number of years, and he has a similar steel tank to mine. He has had to drop it a few times to replace the fuel level sender and he has never had an issue with the veggie creating a film, or other issues related to steel.
We think this might have more to do with the oil that is used. He only uses oil from Chinese and Japanese restaurants. These restaurants change their oil frequently, thus it tends to be a bit more pure.
I'll be running oil that is more typical, stuck in a fryer for a full week before being replaced, so I expect to have more acids and such to deal with. Thus my tank will be getting a slosh seal, and I'll also mix a bit of diesel into my veggie to help avoid issues with the steel. I have a lot of steel components in my system.
Heck, I'd say it is hard to even find a fuel sender that is not made of steel components. My VDO sender is mostly steel with a CAD plating. The CAD plating may be enough to avoid the issues with the veggie oil. If that is the case, I could look into getting my tank CAD plated, we have a local shop that can do large pieces... I'll do a little research on this as it may be cheaper then the slosh seal.
Anyhow, the tank is coming together nicely. Most all the metal is not cut and tacked together, fuel sender installed, heat exchanger started. Starting to look like a tank.
The copper 'slide' thingy on traditional float-type fuel level senders gets coated w/polymerized VO and fails to work after a while. Look for 'inductive-type' sending units...
I know of several conversions running carbon steel VO tanks. Yes, polymerization is an issue, but its not that bad. Just plan to remove tank and clean it eventually (seems like a bad idea to me ). I have seen a few different products designed to 'seal' tanks fail miserably in VO service - so good luck with that. The CAD plating may be the solution, but it quickly becomes obvious why an aluminum tank is often cheaper...
Diesel may help slow poly reaction, but that is not science-based. There are some products on the market that are anti-oxidant/chelating agents that SHOULD help prevent poly - but I haven't found any 'we' can buy yet...
You will have more trouble w/poly and shortened filter life if you heat the whole tank as you are planning. A much beter design would be to focus the heat right around the fuel pick-up and minimize how much the rest of the tank is heated. (tight baffling around HE and pickup tube - look at the Hot Fox or Frybrid designs for good ideas)
If ya do go w/aluminum be very carefull how you suspend it. I've seen several designs lately that are destined to fail. Aluminum fatigues very quickly, and hangers/brackets welded to the side/top of the tank are very likely to crack and the cracks can spread to the surrounding material. Ever notice how ALL factory fuel tanks are 'hung' with steel straps?
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Choose wisely. Or PLEASE post pics of the carnage!!!
2001 F-350, DRW, 4x4, XLT Crew Cab, flat bed, 7.3, 6 spd, Dipricol Optix gauges on pillar - EGT, Boost, Fuel Press., HPO Press. - No Muffler, AIH delete, SB Con OFE, AC code injctrs, GTP 38R. Vegistroke-inspired WVO system w/150,000 trouble-free miles! BTS tunes, 203 t-stat w/billet housing, Evans coolant, coolant filter, boost relief valve, Dieselsite IC boots, Hella headlight harness, '07 grill/lites and big, bad front bumper!
2000 Excursion 4x4 Limited - BTS trans and tunes, AIS, Frybrid/V3 SVO conversion with over 100k VO miles so far!
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early 99 white lariat. leveling kit with 35" procomps, 4 inch from turbo back, dp tuner (80-120), aeromotive fuel pump and reg return, tymar intake, BTS valve body and tci converter.
). I have seen a few different products designed to 'seal' tanks fail miserably in VO service - so good luck with that. The CAD plating may be the solution, but it quickly becomes obvious why an aluminum tank is often cheaper...
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