05 psd blown injector???? - Diesel Forum

wyobob44 · 08-08-2006, 05:57 PM

was pulling my 33' 5th wheel down the highway pretty as you please, had been on the road for about 1.5 hour when the engine just quit, no power, nothing. Barely have cell srevice,(Wyoming), but have a Wilson Repeater and get a hold of a Ford Dealer, they towed me in and gave me a loaner, this is on wedensday on friday they say it is the rings on the high pressure oil pump.On monday they get the parts and put it together, only to find still no oil pressure to start the truck, only later the tech finds a # 1 blown injector???? never really got a answer as to what blew other than they installed a new injector. And the service report is so full of BS on the troubleshooting, found problem by air checking the system?????? Does this mean more injector problems later down the road? Has anyone else had a ( blown injector)??? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif[/img]

oldford · 08-08-2006, 06:27 PM

ummm maybe I was miss informed but "air" checking the system is a reccomended way of finding high pressure oil leaks. before you call bs you might check the facts.

GrampyJim · 08-09-2006, 02:39 AM

Air test is about the only way to localize a concern such as this. We apply shop air to one of the high pressure oil rails.... usual place is the ICP port when the ICP is on the right side valve cover. The IPR is then commanded closed with the scan tool and we proceed to determine where the air is coming from. We may need to leave the system for several minutes to allow oil to be forced out of enough of the high pressure oil system to reveal the leak. Once the repair has been made, smart money is on retesting the system before final assembly and releasing the truck - I'd rather be in poop for taking too long once than in poop for having to do it all over again...

For the original poster, I can only guess that the tech that worked on his truck has seen a couple of the STC fitting failures (or been influenced by reading or talking to others) and guessed at the repair without performing proper diagnosis.

I've seen enough of these turn out to be a blown injector top seal that the extra time spent diagnosing is well worth it.

wyobob44 · 08-09-2006, 10:18 AM

by BS I mean't that he wrote that he air checked first and found the blown injector, repaired that, the truck still no start, then he diagnosed the fitting on the high pressure oil pump, LOTS of CYA on the report, as it all happened the other way, and he was pretty sure it was the fitting from the beginning, so sure they ordered parts without disassembly, maybe thats hows it done now..

GregH · 08-09-2006, 10:45 AM

I'd like to tell you that every vehicle recieves a full diagnosis and is correctly repaired on the first attempt every time.

But we live in an imperfect and defective world. Shortcuts, misdiagnosis, and shotgun repairs happen. I've been guilty of a few from each category. There are lots of reasons for it - management pushing in cars faster than techs can get them out; weeks where the hours just aren't there, and you need a little boost; clouded judgement from seeing the same failure over and over; the list goes on and on.

I'm not condoning this behavior, of course. I'm just letting you know that despite the technicians best intentions, mistakes will happen. At least you've got your truck back, and it's fixed. It also now has the STC bracket to prevent future failure of a known bad part. Sorry for the poor experience, but it isn't unheard of.

Now, in anser to your other question: Injectors can and do blow out. Usually the keeper in the top of the injectore just over an o-ring fails and allows the o-ring to be pushed out. The keeper will break into several pieces, and each of these pieces needs to be accounted for. If not, they will fit through the screen in the botom of the oil pan and find their way to the oil pump - causing lots of damage. Some times it takes me longer to locate all the pieces than it does to perform the rest of the repair. I also assemble the pieces on the bench to verify everything has been found.

Having one injector fail isn't an indication that it was the first in a long line of failures. In fact, I cannot remember having to replace a second failed injector on any 6.0 (talking about o-ring failures - other failures such an intensifier bore scuffing generally has another root cause and affects all injectors equally). Good luck with the truck. Feel free to raise some hell with the service department or with Ford, but it probably won't accomplish much except generate grief for the technician...

GrampyJim · 08-10-2006, 12:23 AM

While the air test may sound a bit exotic and oh so accurate.. it is neither. It can be an imperfect test for a seasoned 6.0 tech and it can be a nightmare for someone with less experience....

To appreciate what this test to it's fullest, I can only suggest that you experience the test being run on a faulty truck.... During fault testing, you are drawn to the loudest sound first - after the initial repair, the smart tech runs the air test again before re-assembly. This is not to say that another issue can't be hidden on a cold engine (I was bitten quite severely not all that long ago by a truck with an HPOP leak that was extremely temperature sensitive and very difficult to fix).

All of the blown out injector seals (the kind Greg describes)that I have seen result in a stall, no restart when hot.

Now... bearing in mind that this engine is more complicated than most things any common man is going to be subject to, the work order description needs to bear a tale that Ford will view as acceptable in order for the dealer to get paid....

Whether the tech rush his diagnosis, trusted dumb luck or had an honest job go sour - it matters not. At the very worst, you would be charged $100 under the engine warranty or nothing under the B to B. Mistakes happen... but it appears that techs are not allowed that luxury - though I will admit that there appear to be far too many with a poor understanding, inadequate skill-sets, poor training and lacking a certain amount of integrity, fortitude and other beneficial traits.

FWIW, I would hope that the tech at the heart of this concern would exercise due care and attention in a retail situation when performing diagnostics (which are not free, in our store) and, if he is in doubt, he should hedge his bets with a "further diagnostics may be required" rider on the estimate.

If this were only as simple as some imagine.... I guess I'd be out of a job....