'05 Suddenly Running Hotter Than Before - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.0L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London, ON, Canada
Posts: 59
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
'05 Suddenly Running Hotter Than Before

Taking my '05 F350 into Ford dealer on Wednesday. Pulling my 15000 Lb 5th wheel, it has begun running hotter than before. Use to run 200/205 ECT/EOT on level flat roads. Would hardly ever hear the clutch fan switch on except while climbing hills. This past week, it is running 207 - 213 ECT and about 210 - 218 EOT while towing on level flat roads. The higher temps cause the clutch fan to click on fairly constantly - it runs for a minute or two and brings the ECT down to around 204 but then it quickly climbs back up to 207 - 213 again and the clutch fan engages again. Over and over.

I've also been seeing BIG white smoke clouds on cold startup. Intermittent. Doesn't always happen - just occasionally.

It has also recently started blowing BIG clouds of black smoke when I am accelerating fairly quickly. Again, this is intermittent and only happens once in awhile - not always.

What should I be expecting the Ford dealer to find with these symptoms? Hope somebody can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance!

VeeDub, '05 F350 DRW 100,000 Miles

Bed Plate Gasket Replace (Feb 09)
STC Replace (Mar 13)
EGR Valve Replace (Aug 13)
FICM Replace (Aug 13)
ScanGauge II (Dec 13)
Oil Cooler Replace (Mar 14)
EGR Cooler Replace (Mar 14)
Blue Spring Upgrade (Mar 14)
Turbo recondition/Unison ring (Mar 14)
Sinister Coolant Filter (Apr 14) - not installed due to Ford service mgr indicating ESP problems
A/C Compressor replaced (Feb '17)
Front Crank seal replaced (Feb '17)
vwsportbug is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London, ON, Canada
Posts: 59
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Forgot to mention that the truck still runs good and strong (even while blowing white or black smoke).

VeeDub, '05 F350 DRW 100,000 Miles

Bed Plate Gasket Replace (Feb 09)
STC Replace (Mar 13)
EGR Valve Replace (Aug 13)
FICM Replace (Aug 13)
ScanGauge II (Dec 13)
Oil Cooler Replace (Mar 14)
EGR Cooler Replace (Mar 14)
Blue Spring Upgrade (Mar 14)
Turbo recondition/Unison ring (Mar 14)
Sinister Coolant Filter (Apr 14) - not installed due to Ford service mgr indicating ESP problems
A/C Compressor replaced (Feb '17)
Front Crank seal replaced (Feb '17)
vwsportbug is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 05:00 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,949
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Hard to say without more information.

Sounds like injectors, but you need to check for codes. Bad things can happen when an injector is dumping excess fuel. Don't drive it any more than you have to.

Check the exhaust - does it smell like fuel?

If the white smoke smells like coolant, then it could be your EGR cooler. After getting it warmed up, then park it "nose down" (or jack up the rear). Then pull the EGR valve and look for coolant in the intake.

You also may have a bad thermostat, but that wouldn't cause the issues w/ white smoke.

I am steering away from turbo and VGT issues because of how well you say it runs.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
bismic is online now  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London, ON, Canada
Posts: 59
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thanks bismic! I'll report back after my Ford service appointment on Wednesday. If there are codes, I expect that they will find them. I am just running out of my Ford Extended Service Plan on April 28th and want to get this issue resolved prior to that (or, at the very least, get the problem identified before the ESP expires).

VeeDub, '05 F350 DRW 100,000 Miles

Bed Plate Gasket Replace (Feb 09)
STC Replace (Mar 13)
EGR Valve Replace (Aug 13)
FICM Replace (Aug 13)
ScanGauge II (Dec 13)
Oil Cooler Replace (Mar 14)
EGR Cooler Replace (Mar 14)
Blue Spring Upgrade (Mar 14)
Turbo recondition/Unison ring (Mar 14)
Sinister Coolant Filter (Apr 14) - not installed due to Ford service mgr indicating ESP problems
A/C Compressor replaced (Feb '17)
Front Crank seal replaced (Feb '17)
vwsportbug is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London, ON, Canada
Posts: 59
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
My truck got looked at today. Two issues:
1) The clutch fan is sticking and needs to be replaced. It's covered under my ESP so no problem for me. I don't think that is the problem that was causing my hotter running however. The old clutch fan seemed to be working fine - just had to run too frequently. I still think there is an issue with either my rad, thermostat, or something else causing it to run hotter than normal.

2) The white/black smoke issue (intermittent) is caused by a cracked fuel injector according to my Ford service advisor. That too will be covered by the ESP warranty but he is recommending that I replace all 8 injectors and the dummy plug/stand pipe at the same time. So, even though the problem is covered, this is still likely to cost me $$$$$ if I approved all of the recommended repairs. What would happen if I just tell them to repair the defective injector and don't do any of the others or the dummy plug/stand pipe? Any thoughts on what I should do here?

Re the injector issue, the service advisor claims that they can't tell which injector is the problem and will have to pull them all until they find the problem one. That sounds a little fishy to me. Any thoughts on that?

I forgot to ask what codes it was throwing. I'll do that next time I'm talking to him.

VeeDub, '05 F350 DRW 100,000 Miles

Bed Plate Gasket Replace (Feb 09)
STC Replace (Mar 13)
EGR Valve Replace (Aug 13)
FICM Replace (Aug 13)
ScanGauge II (Dec 13)
Oil Cooler Replace (Mar 14)
EGR Cooler Replace (Mar 14)
Blue Spring Upgrade (Mar 14)
Turbo recondition/Unison ring (Mar 14)
Sinister Coolant Filter (Apr 14) - not installed due to Ford service mgr indicating ESP problems
A/C Compressor replaced (Feb '17)
Front Crank seal replaced (Feb '17)
vwsportbug is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 04:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,949
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The only way to know on the injectors is to know the driving and maintenance (filter changes, oil changes, etc) history, along w/ the current fuel pressure. Injectors should run 200k to 250k miles before needing changed if maintenance is good.

Every 6.0L owner should install a fuel pressure sending unit and gauge. If fuel pressure is running low (under 50 psig at WOT conditions, then it is time for the blue regulator spring update and it might be wise to let them do all 8 injectors.

On the dummy plugs and standpipes, I would be tempted to pull a valve cover and verify that the updated dummy plugs aren't already in there (they take a 12 mm hex tool for installation and removal, vs the 10mm old style). if they are the old style, then I would go for it.

Getting the actual code numbers is always important.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
bismic is online now  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London, ON, Canada
Posts: 59
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thanks for the reply bismic. I've owned this truck since new and have always been on time or early with basic maintenance (LOF, fuel filters, fluid flushes, etc.). It has never gone past 5000 miles/6 months between service appointments. Always at Ford dealers 'cause I figured they would try to void my ESP warranty if I ever needed anything major done.

As well, I use Ford's cetane booster additive with every fuel fill up since a previous service manager advised that this would extend the service life of the fuel injectors.

Does my Scangauge II have the correct PID for fuel pressures? What should I be looking for there? Not sure it's going to matter since the truck is now in the hands of the Ford service department and with less than a week remaining on the ESP warranty, I will be letting them do whatever they decide it needs and just hope the problems go away once I get it back from them. Still not sure what to do regarding the rest of the fuel injectors - I've always read that they should last at least 200,000 miles and I'm only half way there. Maybe age affects them also?

Do I let them replace all 8 injectors or just have them replace the bad one? Is the Service Advisor right that they would not be able to tell which one is bad without pulling them all until they find the bad one? While they are in there, should I replace the dummy plug/stand pipe? Not sure what to do!

VeeDub, '05 F350 DRW 100,000 Miles

Bed Plate Gasket Replace (Feb 09)
STC Replace (Mar 13)
EGR Valve Replace (Aug 13)
FICM Replace (Aug 13)
ScanGauge II (Dec 13)
Oil Cooler Replace (Mar 14)
EGR Cooler Replace (Mar 14)
Blue Spring Upgrade (Mar 14)
Turbo recondition/Unison ring (Mar 14)
Sinister Coolant Filter (Apr 14) - not installed due to Ford service mgr indicating ESP problems
A/C Compressor replaced (Feb '17)
Front Crank seal replaced (Feb '17)
vwsportbug is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 06:24 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,949
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
They should have a way of telling which injector is bad, but there is no way to tell how much life the rest of the injectors have remaining.

The cheapest way to replace an injector is to do it yourself, and that will cost you $220 to $250 each. The whole job would cost around $2000 (more at a dealership). You have used up half of the life of the injectors, or $1000 dollars worth. If your portion of the cost is only a few hundred for the work, then you are getting benefit (100k mile benefit). So do it. If you had to pay the entire cost, then I would have to see the fuel pressure before answering.

The fuel pressure is important!

You need a sending unit and a gauge for fuel pressure. In other words Ford did not install a sensor so there is nothing installed to transmit a signal to a gauge. You need to install both the sensor (sending unit), wire to a gauge, a gauge, and 12v power to the gauge. There is a test port at the upper fuel filter specifically for installing the sending unit. Lots of threads on this. google time. If you aren't going to install the sending unit and gauge, then have the dealership test the fuel pressure at WOT conditions. They have the tools to simulate it.

Can you pull the valve covers yourself?

I suggested looking at the dummy plugs, but if you have had it since new and you aren't aware of the dummy plugs being changed out, then YES, dummy plugs and stand pipes should be done.

Lastly, you should ask to talk directly to their diesel mechanic. Ask him about all of this. Service Advisors sometimes just throw out BS, and several I have met aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Lastly (again) - get and post the code(s).

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 04-21-2017 at 06:27 AM.
bismic is online now  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 06:30 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,949
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
One last post to summarize.

We don't know your financial position OR how much the work would end up costing, so advice is hard to give.

ALSO (VERY IMPORTANT) - you need to become familiar with the Diesel Tech at the shop that will be doing the work. The scope of work is important, but having it done by a talented mechanic is critical as well.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
bismic is online now  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London, ON, Canada
Posts: 59
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Talked to the Service Advisor again today. The truck is throwing no codes according to him. The actual tech was out on a test drive so I couldn't talk to him. No way to determine how he has decided there is a bad injector but that's what they say is causing the intermittent white/black smoke.

With no code, they say they can't tell which injector is going bad. It's either replace them all or wait until it gets worse and they can identify it by then. Of course, that will be after my ESP warranty expires on April 28th. The service advisor says there is no way Ford would cover it then.

It looks like my portion of the 8 injectors would be about $2500 after Ford pays for one of them to be replaced. That would cover the dummy plug/stand pipe also. I'm not even convinced that it is an injector. I think they are throwing parts at it to see what sticks.

No chance I can do the work myself. Not much mechanical expertise and limited collection of tools. The $2500 will pretty much break the bank - doable but it will hurt! If I gamble and leave it until it gets worse and we know exactly what is going wrong, it will probably cost $1000 more if it is injectors. I'm in Canada so these are Cdn $ so a bit more than in the US and include our ever present tax overload.

I've requested the service advisor to contact someone at Ford Warranty to see if they will consider replacing all 8 injectors since they can't tell which one is bad. He laughed at me but said he would enquire with them. He said he could keep the work order open for a couple of weeks to see if the injector gets worse but that's really all he says he can do for me. I might hook up to the trailer sometime next week and drive the snot out of it in hopes that whatever is wrong will become obvious. Maybe try to get a fuel pressure gauge hooked up then.....

That's all for now....

VeeDub, '05 F350 DRW 100,000 Miles

Bed Plate Gasket Replace (Feb 09)
STC Replace (Mar 13)
EGR Valve Replace (Aug 13)
FICM Replace (Aug 13)
ScanGauge II (Dec 13)
Oil Cooler Replace (Mar 14)
EGR Cooler Replace (Mar 14)
Blue Spring Upgrade (Mar 14)
Turbo recondition/Unison ring (Mar 14)
Sinister Coolant Filter (Apr 14) - not installed due to Ford service mgr indicating ESP problems
A/C Compressor replaced (Feb '17)
Front Crank seal replaced (Feb '17)
vwsportbug is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 02:35 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,949
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwsportbug View Post
Talked to the Service Advisor again today. The truck is throwing no codes according to him. The actual tech was out on a test drive so I couldn't talk to him. No way to determine how he has decided there is a bad injector but that's what they say is causing the intermittent white/black smoke.

With no code, they say they can't tell which injector is going bad. It's either replace them all or wait until it gets worse and they can identify it by then. Of course, that will be after my ESP warranty expires on April 28th. The service advisor says there is no way Ford would cover it then.

It looks like my portion of the 8 injectors would be about $2500 after Ford pays for one of them to be replaced. That would cover the dummy plug/stand pipe also. I'm not even convinced that it is an injector. I think they are throwing parts at it to see what sticks.

No chance I can do the work myself. Not much mechanical expertise and limited collection of tools. The $2500 will pretty much break the bank - doable but it will hurt! If I gamble and leave it until it gets worse and we know exactly what is going wrong, it will probably cost $1000 more if it is injectors. I'm in Canada so these are Cdn $ so a bit more than in the US and include our ever present tax overload.

I've requested the service advisor to contact someone at Ford Warranty to see if they will consider replacing all 8 injectors since they can't tell which one is bad. He laughed at me but said he would enquire with them. He said he could keep the work order open for a couple of weeks to see if the injector gets worse but that's really all he says he can do for me. I might hook up to the trailer sometime next week and drive the snot out of it in hopes that whatever is wrong will become obvious. Maybe try to get a fuel pressure gauge hooked up then.....

That's all for now....
The text in bold is not correct IMO.

They can run an uncompensated contribution test, They can also crank w/ glow plugs out. If you are blowing quite a bit of white smoke periodically, it isn't impossible to troubleshoot.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270A XP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD Billet WaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 04-21-2017 at 02:39 PM.
bismic is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > 1999-2007 Ford Super Duties > 6.0L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome