6.0 starts sometimes...Help with troubleshooting

[FlyMarines09]

I recently bought a 04 F-250 4x4. Truck has been running great up until yesturday. It has 102k, 2k from myself, I cleaned out the injectors, put fuel additive in, replaced all of the filters, changed the oil, all that jazz. In other words, I'm taking very good care of it. Glow plugs were just replaced.

I went to go start it up before work, and the darn thing wouldn't start. It turns over, tach reads 100rpm, but there wasn't any ignition. I hear the fuel pump running, and the glow plugs thump. I opened up the fuel filters, theres nothing clogged, or guncked up. Fuel is running through all the lines. I didn't have time to really do anything about it then, later that night, I went back out to start it and it started right up, no problem.
Today, the same thing happend... wouldn't start, opend up the filters again, same thing... No obvious problems. Wouldnt start, wouldn't start, wouldn't start.... 2 hours later, started right up. Drove around a bit, shut it down, waited and again, started back up.

I just put fresh fuel in, so idk if maybe I had a bad batch of fuel. I made sure there wasn't any water, or even unleaded gasoline in it. I can't figure out why it's acting weird. I did some research, and maybe it the HP oil res not getting enough pressure to the injectors. I really don't know why it's acting fine one minute and not the next...

Any suggestions?

[DRJ48]

I can only assume you have the proper oil, oil filter and fuel filters installed. If the batteries are original I would try jump starting it when it won,t start. A bad battery or batteries can and will cause a lot of strange starting problems. I would eliminate the electrical system first.

[FlyMarines09]

Okay, I'm real fed up here. Since my original post, my truck has been on its own program with the 'not wanting to start all of the time' thing... Sometimes, the truck start great, no issues, and other times, it doesn't start. Often in the same day... Seems to happen randomly. I've been paying attention to the weather here lately and it hasn't been changing enough to affect the performance of the truck. No one else that I know with diesels has had any issues with their trucks either.

Sometimes it wont start and a day or two late it will with absolutely no problem. (Starts right away), then there are times when it doesn't start for a week at a time. Now, my truck hasn't started in 2 and a half weeks. She cranks just fine, get RPM and oil pressure, she just wont start. Not the starter, not the battery. Both fuel pumps are delivering enough fuel, I have the correct amount of oil, correct filters, brand new air filter, ect... One time it was the air filter that fixed the problem, another time it was the fuel filter. It seems sooooo random. I drained the fuel pumps, still nothing

I hooked up and OBD-II...... NO CODES!!!!!! Idk what to do and I really can't afford to bring it to a mechanic. I'm probably going to run over the part store and throw in a new fuel filter and see what that does... It's the same problem every time and different components fix it each time. It's very frustrating. And the thing is, when she does start, she runs GREAT! No sputtering, no hesitation, no power loss, nothing like that. Sound like an electrical problem to me, but I really don't know where to start.

Any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks!

[bismic]

You only have one fuel pump. It is part of the primary fiter. When you say you have oil pressure, are you measuring the high pressure oil? The dash guage is just the low pressure oil. You need 500 psig oil pressure to start. You could try disconnecting the ICP sensor and see if that helps.

You could also have wire chaffing.

Wire Chaffing Locations

http://www.***************.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17301&d=1208412696

note - "the diesel garage" with no spaces should be where the "stars" are.

FICM and ICP harness recall:

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/photographs/index1.phphttp://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-05-13.phphttp://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-05-13.php

mms://multimedia.ford.com/seopts/Tech12_250k.wmvhttp://turbodieselforums.com/downloads/6.0L%20wire%20chafing.pdfhttp://turbodieselforums.com/downloads/Econoline%20Wire%20Chafe.pdf

[FlyMarines09]

Thanks for the link. Well, I'm using the gauge to tell me that I have oil pressure, so I'm just assuming I have enough. I'm going to read over the links that you sent. What is ICP?

[FlyMarines09]

would a quick fix of wire chaffing be just use some electrical tape? This truck needs to run! It's costing me toooooo much money just sitting and not running.

Thanks

[bismic]

Originally Posted by FlyMarines09

would a quick fix of wire chaffing be just use some electrical tape? This truck needs to run! It's costing me toooooo much money just sitting and not running.

Thanks

ICP - Injection Control Pressure (sensor). This is what reads the pressure on your high pressure oil system. It must sense 500 psig oil pressure minimum or your truck will not start. You can disconnect the ICP and your truck computer will sense that the ICP sensor is not functional and go to a default strategy.

Depending on how bad the wire chaffing is, you may just be able to re-tape and go. I have seen pics of bad chaffing and wires that have been burnt through. then you need to splice (or replace pigtails)

[FlyMarines09]

I'll try taking the ICP off. I'm sure it's possible that I really don't have the 500psig that i need. Could that be from there not being enough oil or a clog in the oil filter or is the high pressure oil system completely independent? Does low oil pressure create low compression? I'd have to read up on the whole hp oil thing some more.

Also, if the ICP sensor was bad, I'd assume that it would have popped a code on the OBD-II, right?
thanks

[bismic]

The low pressure oil pump sends oil to a reservoir for the high pressure oil pump to take suction from, so they are not entirely independent. Most of the time, a low pressure in the "high pressure oil system" is due to a leak in the high pressure oil system piping (oil branch, STC fitting, oil rails, etc). Sometimes it is a HPOP (pump) problem.

As I said, you can pull the connector off of the ICP sensor and see if it runs. If it does it could mean you have a bad ICP sensor or connector. Sometimes, due to an o-ring failure in the sensor, the connector and wires become oil soaked and need replacing.

Low pressure in the high pressure oil system does result in low fuel pressure through the injectors. The high pressure oil provides apprx 3700 psig pressure to an "intensifier piston" in the injectors. The intensifier piston increases the fuel pressure by a factor of 7 or so (seven times the oil pressure equals about 27,000 psig fuel pressure).

[rjriley]

What was your resolution? I have a 2006 that is doing the same thing. 102000 miles. Just had 2 injectors replaced, EGR & Oil Cooler replaced less than 1000 miles ago. No it starts some times and not the next. Replaced fuel filters. Truck runs just fine when it does start.

Thanks

[FlyMarines09]

I'll try removing the ICP sensor and see what that does. I'm really just so frustrated that I'm thinking of giving it to the Ford dealer and have them fix it.

So would you rule out it being a fuel problem then? I was thinking that perhaps the fuel filter keeps getting clogged for some reason... I've replaced a couple of them in a short amount of time. It is quite humid out here, water may be getting in the tank, or some of the lines. The frame mounted fuel pump might be doing its job and just getting clogged (maybe the reason that the truck runs great when it actually starts?)

Thanks for your time and replies. ICP is my next thing to look into.

[bismic]

It sure COULD be fuel related. you stated that you checked it pretty thoroughly though. Just an FYI, it is wise to use Motorcraft, Racor, or International fuel filters. Some aftermarkets do not perform as well. Sometimes, folks have not lubed the o-ring on the HFCM (frame rail filter and fuel pump) or they have not properly screwed the cap on. Air gets in and it is hard to start. Sometimes the caps crack and it goes un-noticed.

Are you cycling the key on and off after changing/removing the filters. this is important to getting the air out. There is a specific procedure that I can post if you need me to.

Most folks say you can check fuel flow by opening the secondary fuel filter, removing the fuel, and then cycling the key (do not start), to check for fuel flow filling the secondary filter housing.

Also, you can drain water from the plug on the HFCM (6 mm allen wrench). I always drain it into a jar to get a good visual on the quality (dirty, water, etc).

You may know all this, I just couldn't tell from your post. Actually the best thing to troubleshoot your fuel system is a fuel pressure gauge. I will have one by year end (saving the $$'s).

[halerazor]

my friends having the exact smae problem with his 04 . he changed the ipr and it ran fine for 3 weeks then it wouldn't start again, it would only do this when the truck sat a while once it was warmed up it would start right up. 4 days ago he came out of work and it wouldn't start so we pulled the ICP and it didn't make a difference no codes no nothing he's tried starting everyday since then with no luck. he ordered a scanner a couple days ago so he can check the oil pressure. If it is a leak it will have problems when the oil is hot and thinner. our guess is that the HPOP is shot and no longer able to prime itself.

[djshum]

you either need to get a scan tool, or have a dealer diagnose it for you. There are many things that can cause a no start. There are most likely codes stored, that an aftermarket scan tool can't/won't retrieve. Along with the codes, pid data needs to be monitored to see what system is actually causing the problem.

[bismic]

Originally Posted by djshum

you either need to get a scan tool, or have a dealer diagnose it for you. There are many things that can cause a no start. There are most likely codes stored, that an aftermarket scan tool can't/won't retrieve. Along with the codes, pid data needs to be monitored to see what system is actually causing the problem.

Good advice definitely. However (in this financial mess we are in), everyone should try the basic things before they take a vehicle in.

In the case of a no-start, here are some simple things to troubleshoot (some have been mentioned already):

• Shift lever not in park or neutral.
• Bad fuel - drain the HFCM water separator and inspect fuel.
• Clogged air filter - inspect, and/or replace
• Air in the fuel - most frequently caused by a bad seal on the HFCM cap (or bad o-ring). Replace o-ring, lube w/ oil and re-install carefully.
• No fuel flow (clogged fuel filter, bad HFCM, clogged pump suction line, etc). Change filters, see if HFCM is filling the upper fuel bowl, check fuel pressure if you don't mind a little work to install a gauge, blow air through fuel lines if you think they may be plugged.
• Oil problems (foaming, loss of viscosity: too thick or fuel diluted). Check oil level for fuel dilution, inspect oil condition, maybe even change oil and filter. Definitely make sure you filled w/ the proper oil.
• Bad batteries (coupled w/ bad alternator) or bad starter (needs 500 rpm to start IIRC) - load test each batteries and test alternator
• Bad ground or corroded terminals/wires. Check battery and charging system wires and cables.
• Bad anti-theft system or remote-start system - disconnect system and see if it starts
• Wire chaffing on key components - inspect wires as mentioned in the earlier links
• Bad ICP sensor - disconnect harness and re-try
• Glow plugs or module. You can make a cursory check on this system if you have an inductive (clamp on) amp meter.
• Lastly - An Auto Enginuity code reader is very powerful (but it is somewhat expensive). You can do the injector buzz test w/ it.

If you are lucky, you can find the culprit. If not, take it in. The most expensive thing to do is throw parts at it!