Auto/manual hubs

[FSUPERDUTY]

Any body replaced there auto/manual hubs with warn 11690 manuals? My hubs are hard to turn,they still lock both manually and automatically but with out taking tham apart I cannot get them to un-lock.I had this same problem with my 2000 truck but they acted up before the warranty went out so ford fixed them.I am about 5k out now with this truck.I wonder how many trucks are running around and the people don't relize the front end is turning.My buddy has the same problem with his 2002 aswell.I am going to ford monday am and complain since i had the same trouble with my other truck,but I'm not expecting much!I really hate to give up auto 4WD but ford hubs are $200.00 apiece my cost.What a rip considering before the truck has 100k on it they probably will have failed again.

[GrampyJim]

I have found very few of these hubs to be faulty.... In a shop where nearly all I ever work on is SuperDuty 4X4s. I replace maybe one or two hubs in a year... our northern Alberta winters, bright red mud and ever-present muskeg can be hard on 4X4s.

Reviewing the many posts on this forum, I have realized that the 4WD ESOF system is, very likely, the most misunderstood and under-serviced thing on these trucks.

The only thing that I can add to the several posts on this subject that I have made in the past is that silicon spray or WD40 can be sprayed in the area between the knob and the hub body to keep the O-ring in there clean and lubricated.

The pulsed vacuum hub system is extremely reliable if we only service them properly.... Many seem to consider "fixing" as "servicing" and prefer to wait for a failure rather than apply the same preventive maintenance measures that they lavish on the rest of the truck.

[FSUPERDUTY]

Things might be a little different up there I'm not sure?But to tell me they are not a problem I don't beleve it not here any way.wd40 or silicone is no match for calcium chloride and pouring salt down buy the thousands of ton's every storm here in the winter.Any body that lives in the Chicago land area will vouch.Both of my trucks have had this problem,my friends 02,another friends 01 which he recently traded for an 06,and another friend had a early 00 when I had my 00 complained of it as well.I did not say it was a badly designed system, just crappy designed HUBS! and seeing that they are different on the 05 might comfirm that they are.I can twist the hubs with pliers and loosen them up but why don't they unlock.

[GrampyJim]

I realize that your roads get more salt than mine... in spite of the fact that it snowed about 8 inches in the last 24 hours here... If our operating conditions require ant particular periodic maintenance, it is up to us to provide that maintenance. If salt invades the O-ring on the knob for the hub, we clean and maintain it to preserver servicability.... after all, don't we change lubricants and filters to preserve servicability? Don't we wash and wax to preserve "servicability" of the finish?

If the hubs don't unlock, I would suspect a vacuum concern - very possibly related to the knuckle seals. The unlock vacuum signal is about half of the lock vacuum signal.... any weak point in the system will most likely allow the hubs to lock but be unable to maintain an unlock signal...

It's your truck and your money.... it matters not to me how you treat them. If you feel the need to make changes to a system that you don't understand, so be it. Since I work on these trucks all the time, I will admit that I don't know as much as some.... but I'm left wondering why my customers don't have crappy hubs like the experts do...

[torino73]

On my '02, I removed, dismantled, and lubricated my hubs when they locked up on me, and they worked fine. They were the manual type, though.

[SAVAGESAM]

If our operating conditions require ant particular periodic maintenance, it is up to us to provide that maintenance..........Grampy, What do you advise as to the maintenance?

[FSUPERDUTY]

There is nothing wrong with the vacuum or the way it operates.The hubs are screwed up.I removed them and took a screw driver and pushed them free.I have completly taken them apart there is no contamination and as far as i can tell no way to remove the o-ring or twist nob that I can find to remove and lube, we did it on my buddys 02 aswell.We got it to run free in the freewheeling mode,I would be willing to bet the $500.00 a new pair of hubs cost wood fix it!You are arguing with me and basically telling me I don't Know what I am talking about but you have never offered any advice what to check for!I have sprayed te hubs full of pb blaster,wd40,and that is not enough.I go ahead and twist them at least monthly to keep this from happening and that is how I found out they did not disengauge,I pulled into a parking spot and heard them clicking when I made a sharp turn.Back to my ORIGINAL QUESTION has any body run the warn hubs?

[GrampyJim]

On any of these systems up to and including 04, there is a schedule for hub service .... http://[censored].com/s942t is the place to start to find your recommended interval.Be brutally honest with yourself regarding vehicle usage. When servicing the spindle needle bearings, Ford is assuming that the knuckle seals, yellow o-rings and axle tube dust seals will be replaced as maintenance items. Re-using any of these is inviting troubles.

For the majority of our customers, 30,000 km appears to be the sweet spot... At this point we usually see some rust in the knuckle cavity but this is easily cleaned using a flapper wheel in a die grinder. For those that have to travel into wetter conditions, we see signs of water intrusion getting very close to the spindle bearing and, in these cases, we replace the bearings as suspect - remember that this $20 dollar bearing can take out a $400 stub axle quicker than you can say "***....".

When we have everything apart, we clean the gap between the knob and the locking hub body and then spray a liberal amount of silicone spray or WD40 into the gap (whatever is handy... both seem to work well) and several drops of ATF into critical areas inside the locking hub. Work the plunger a few times to be sure (taking care not to break the plastic hooks inside). Our shop charges 1.5 for this service as a stand-alone but we do try to work it in with other operations when possible so that the customer gets the most bang for his buck.

For 05 and up, there is no recommended maintenance interval but we have found that the seals will deteriorate over time allowing bad stuff into the knuckle cavity. The spindle bearings on these are not serviced separately through the Ford parts network (though I imagine there is an industry bearing that will work) and Ford will sell you a complete hub assembly. The new style spindle bearing is a sealed, ball bearing unit from outward appearances.... we have seen that the seals will keep the lubricant in the bearing but it will not keep water out of it.

FWIW, a good tech will learn from what he sees in the shop and, if he is conscientious, will make recommendations to his customer that will, hopefully, reduce the overall operating costs of the vehicle (while some feel that driving from one breakdown to the next makes more sense) yet maintain the highest level of dependability from the unit. Most of my customers work far out in the bush, travelling on roads that can become impassible in a heartbeat, in areas where cell phone coverage can be dubious.... often in weather that can reach colder than -40 in a matter of hours and in an area where it is real easy to p*ss off wild animals that can run faster, bite harder and are a lot bigger than us... like I keep saying - their trucks always seem to work when they need them...

[FSUPERDUTY]

Went to ford this morning and pleaded my case,explained I was just out of warrenty and this problem has happened with my previous truck as well as several of my friends trucks as well.He said that there is not a whole lot that he could do.He quoated me a price of $575.00 for hubs and labor to install them and said that he could reduce the price down to $345.00 and try to get ford to assist.My cost on the hubs were $220.00 apiece.Which saved me $100.00.My guess is he sold me the parts at his cost and added a headlight adjustment to somebody elses vehicle under warrenty to pay his employee and maybee he'll get somthing from ford for his trouble but never the less he helped me out and I appreciate his efferts very much! Thank you Woodstock Ford & Frank the service manager (by the way this dealer is not real big the fact that he had the parts instock proves to me that this is more common than most would think)

[andrewbalser]

HA! that's luck (that they had them in stock)

I had to have my esof hubs replaced at 30k miles because they were seized up. I had it done at the largest Super-Duty/PSD dealer in Indianapolis, and they had to order them.

[YODA]

Jim - while I understand where your coming from, preventive maintenance, Ford has a long history with random problems on locking ad unlocking with ESOF on these trucks. My lemon 03 went through two full sets of hubs and was on a third set at buy back. Problems ranged from bad seals to internal failure and this was during the summer. I was even exercising them per the owners manual when the failures occurred.

Prior to that and now I have the full manual 4x4 system where it is up to me to lock them in. No problems ever. They lock and unlock when I do it, not at the whim of an electronic module and a vacuum pump.

As for the history, I have been around this site for quiet some time - back into the stone age. Even back then esof was having problems (94-95 models).

So nothing personal intended, but I guess getting them fully serviced every 18,645 miles would keep them running. I cant afford that and neither can a lot here and feel they should be fine until the bearings need to be serviced.

[doug510]

This may be a dumb question, but when do you use the manual function of the hubs? Is it supposed to override the electric 4x4 on the dash?

I got was stuck in about 4" of mud with my 05 Ex, flicked the 4x4 switch on my dash and nothing happened (no 4 wheel). I got out locked the hubs and still no 4 wheel. Luckily I was just in my back yard at the time. Took it to the dealer and it took them all day to find the problem. They said it was a bad relay/switch or something.

I asked the dealer if the manual portion overrides the electric switch on the dash and they could. Not give me an answer. Thanks for he input.

[FSUPERDUTY]

The switch on the dash activates the servo on the transfer case,no different than in the old days if you had a lever on the floor.it also sends a signal to what ever controls the vacuum operation of the hubs weather it be lock or unlock.the MANUAL operation of the hubs backs you up if the the vacuum pump springs a leak or a seal goes bad.the only other reason that I would lock them is for periodic lubrication of the front differential and to keep the hubs from freezing up.locking the hubs manually has no fuction to the transfer case.You probably had a problem with your servo,those will freeze up from lack of use aswell.all this electric stuff is convenient,but it sure can be a pain when it don't work.

[YODA]

Doug - in your case the transfer case was not engaging due to the bad module. You had you hubs locked, but due to the fact the transfer case did not engage you went no where. If it ever happen again you can crawl under the truck and possibly manually engage the transfer case. Do a search in the archives. I think you may need to jump the wires on the motor, but not sure. It was a few years back.

Now Ford, to the best of my knowledge, has never made a model with a floor lever that was not mechanically connected to the transfer case. I could be wrong, but you only get the floor lever on the true manual 4x4 set up.