6.0L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.
Casting sand is not just limited to the power stroke.
I got a letter from ford about my wifes ford edge saying that they were extending the warrenty on the heater core to 105,000. because of casting sand stoping up the heater cores.
Why are they not saying the the casting sand is stoping up egr coolers and doing something about it.
Its too late for Ford to do anything about the 6.0L. They are so deep in their own denial that they can't do anything about the problems, it would cost billions upon billions of dollars if they owned up to it and it would put Ford in the ground.
But with the newer vehicles they can avoid digging yet another hole with their lies.
The last 6.0 is now old enough that MOST any issue from casting sand is behind the owner. Mine has 148,000 miles on it and what ever issues I may have sand will not be one. The guys with coolant filters that keep finding the filters full of stuff can not be still removing sand. There is just a small amount to start with and once gone it will not come back. Which begs the question, what is it they are filtering out of their coolant?
Roy
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2005 Limited, 6.0L PSD, 4X2, Mineral Gray, 3.73 LS. Excursion Build date 02-08-05 6.0L 2005MY Engine Build date 01-03-05 Huntsville, Ala.
2005 50th anniversary Thunderbird Red with all
options except hardtop.
Old Ride: 2003 Excursion 6.0 L March 2003 Build 73,000 with no significant issues.
There have been threads where Techs talk about "mud" being blown out of plugged oil coolers.
You got it. Overheating, reaction with exhaust gasses, mixing different coolant types, etc. - all can lead to silicate precipitation and corrosion by-products.
Something that I've never hear mentioned on this subject and that is:-
Has anyone ever had a small rad leak and dumped in some of those rad leak stoppers into the coolant system and what effect would that have on an EGR cooler?
I think I know the answer to that one but I'll bet that somewhere along the line, it has been done perhaps with deadly results.
I know that I have never seen any kind of warning on the instruction labels to not use it under certain conditions.
__________________ Ken
Winnipeg, Manitoba, CANADA
2006 F-250 King Ranch 6.0L Diesel - 4x2 - Stock
I just want to age disgracefully
The last 6.0 is now old enough that MOST any issue from casting sand is behind the owner. Mine has 148,000 miles on it and what ever issues I may have sand will not be one. The guys with coolant filters that keep finding the filters full of stuff can not be still removing sand. There is just a small amount to start with and once gone it will not come back. Which begs the question, what is it they are filtering out of their coolant?
Roy
.....and do you want that stuff in yours?
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The 6.0l motor has surpassed Hot Chicks as the greatest Money reducing Agent known to Mankind.
2004 F-250 Lariat late build 4X4 CC/LB auto,fully loaded with sunroof, power slider and backup sensors , White with 12" ICON lift, 6 superduty valved bilsteins, flip steering, 38" MTZs on 20x12 chrome Fuel Hostage wheels, stock gears, superlift truspeed, fumoto, high idle mod, large case high amp alternator, floating traction bars, airraid intake with elbow, 4" turbo back, studded, powerslots with hawk pads, billet grill, 55 watt HIDs 6000k heads and fogs, clear corners, 7" Eclipse AVN6620BT NAV w/ back up camera, massive JL stereo 300/4 and 500/1, 2 12s behind back seat, amp research steps, sirius, '08 diff cover, redhead steering box,, coolant filter kit, hush panels and door seal mod, quad pod with boost, EGT, water temp, and fuel pressure gauges
If casting sand is such a big issue, then shouldn't we also be dealing with sand in the oil passage ways? A little sand in the oil that is lubing our cranks, rings, and running through the HPOP and injectors, I would think would show up sooner than the effect of clogging an oil or EGR cooler after 20,000 to 40,000 miles. I am puzzled! I guess I just do not understand this issue at all.
Roy
__________________
2005 Limited, 6.0L PSD, 4X2, Mineral Gray, 3.73 LS. Excursion Build date 02-08-05 6.0L 2005MY Engine Build date 01-03-05 Huntsville, Ala.
2005 50th anniversary Thunderbird Red with all
options except hardtop.
Old Ride: 2003 Excursion 6.0 L March 2003 Build 73,000 with no significant issues.
If casting sand is such a big issue, then shouldn't we also be dealing with sand in the oil passage ways? A little sand in the oil that is lubing our cranks, rings, and running through the HPOP and injectors, I would think would show up sooner than the effect of clogging an oil or EGR cooler after 20,000 to 40,000 miles. I am puzzled! I guess I just do not understand this issue at all.
Roy
I would guess that the factory would recognize the need to clean those passageways well after production. I doubt that they saw the need to clean the coolant side (at the time anyway).
I would guess that the factory would recognize the need to clean those passageways well after production. I doubt that they saw the need to clean the coolant side (at the time anyway).
I see your point but casting blocks in sand is nothing new and I would expect (could always be wrong) that there is some automated cleanup of the blocks once the exterior sand had been removed. This sand thing just seems out of place, unless we are talking about a failure in IH's controls. I have not heard any similar comments about IH's version of the 6.0 (VT365) has anyone else?
Roy
__________________
2005 Limited, 6.0L PSD, 4X2, Mineral Gray, 3.73 LS. Excursion Build date 02-08-05 6.0L 2005MY Engine Build date 01-03-05 Huntsville, Ala.
2005 50th anniversary Thunderbird Red with all
options except hardtop.
Old Ride: 2003 Excursion 6.0 L March 2003 Build 73,000 with no significant issues.
If casting sand is such a big issue, then shouldn't we also be dealing with sand in the oil passage ways? A little sand in the oil that is lubing our cranks, rings, and running through the HPOP and injectors, I would think would show up sooner than the effect of clogging an oil or EGR cooler after 20,000 to 40,000 miles. I am puzzled! I guess I just do not understand this issue at all.
Roy
Your thinking is not that far off really. Anyone that has ever done a UOA on a new engine can tell you the silicon numbers will be high on the first few samples. That silicon is primarily casting sand. But there are some very distinct differences:
Oil is thicker than water/coolant to begin with and is designed to put contaminents into suspension. Too, the oil is being filtered from the minute the engine is fired for the first time and if you are doing your maintenance on time, the oil is being changed every 5K to 7500 miles. Whereas, unless you add a filter, the coolant side is never filtered and it's normally not changed until it has roughly 100K miles on it.... Not to mention, it is not designed to suspend contaminents in it...
__________________ 2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03; AIC; Silverline turbo-back dual exhaust; 155cc injectors from Full Force Diesel (Casserly); SCT with tuning by Tony Wildman (Total Diesel Performance) & Innovative Diesel; ARP studs; Dfuser regulated return; AFE PG7; Fumoto valve; B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges; DIESELSITE Coolant filter; Timbrens; Rancho RSXs; Michelin XPS Traction's; a whole bunch of "bling"; Connex 4300hp; Pioneer DEH6100BT; JL Audio 275w amp driving a 12" sub; JL Audio 50wx4 amp driving the Alpine door and rear seat speakers. 380.3hp/786.7ft-lbs (on my tow tune!)
I have never seen the inside of an International Production facility but I can't imagine that the process of casting a block varies much from place to place. I was watching some show on Discovery and it showed how blocks were cast from the assembly of the mold to the pouring of the molten metal. I could have sworn they coated the insides of the oil passages with talc or some kind of release agent prior to the pour
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2007 F350 XLT 4x4 SC 6.0 PSD No Mods *Traded*
2011 F250 XLT/FX4 4X4 CC 6.7L PSD
Your thinking is not that far off really. Anyone that has ever done a UOA on a new engine can tell you the silicon numbers will be high on the first few samples. That silicon is primarily casting sand. But there are some very distinct differences:
Oil is thicker than water/coolant to begin with and is designed to put contaminents into suspension. Too, the oil is being filtered from the minute the engine is fired for the first time and if you are doing your maintenance on time, the oil is being changed every 5K to 7500 miles. Whereas, unless you add a filter, the coolant side is never filtered and it's normally not changed until it has roughly 100K miles on it.... Not to mention, it is not designed to suspend contaminents in it...
I also do not find it hard to believe that this is the first engine to show problems with the minute amount of sand left in the block. Prior to the 6.0 it was probably fine however placing the oil and EGR coolers in series with small coolant passages could have had unintended consequences. The 7.3 had no EGR cooler. I do not think there was this huge lapse of quality control at International, just a learning curve that the public got to play a part in....
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2007 F350 XLT 4x4 SC 6.0 PSD No Mods *Traded*
2011 F250 XLT/FX4 4X4 CC 6.7L PSD
There is no tight confined areas of the block that have to do with oil like there is in the cooling system during the casting process. Oil galleys are machined ( DRILLED ) into the block after casting are made, so the casting sand isn't an issue here. Every oil passage is a straight smooth hole in one form or another.
1973 K5 Blazer 383stroker,TrickFlow alum.heads,Crower forged rods-roller lifter cam-roller rockers,Keith Black10.5:1,Doug Thorley tri-y,MSD,ARP,Q-jet,on 1 ton axles,1991 front clip,3K miles on FULL body off rebuild
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, White with 12" ICON lift, 6 superduty valved bilsteins, flip steering, 38" MTZs on 20x12 chrome Fuel Hostage wheels
, stock gears, superlift truspeed, fumoto, high idle mod, large case high amp alternator, floating traction bars, airraid intake with elbow, 4" turbo back, studded, powerslots with hawk pads, billet grill, 55 watt HIDs 6000k heads and fogs, clear corners, 7" Eclipse AVN6620BT NAV w/ back up camera, massive JL stereo 300/4 and 500/1, 2 12s behind back seat
, amp research steps, sirius, '08 diff cover, redhead steering box,
, coolant filter kit, hush panels and door seal mod, quad pod with boost, EGT, water temp, and fuel pressure gauges
2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03; AIC; Silverline turbo-back dual exhaust; 155cc injectors from Full Force Diesel (Casserly); SCT with tuning by Tony Wildman (Total Diesel Performance) & Innovative Diesel; ARP studs; Dfuser regulated return; AFE PG7; Fumoto valve; B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges; DIESELSITE Coolant filter; Timbrens; Rancho RSXs; Michelin XPS Traction's; a whole bunch of "bling"; Connex 4300hp; Pioneer DEH6100BT; JL Audio 275w amp driving a 12" sub; JL Audio 50wx4 amp driving the Alpine door and rear seat speakers. 380.3hp/786.7ft-lbs (on my tow tune!)
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