Disconnecting power to the EGR valve solenoid Will it hurt anything?

[Strokin' 6.0]

Originally Posted by teamroper60

....The thing is, we know that removing it increases cylinder pressures but we don't really know how much. Without knowing how much, we don't know if removing it has a significant negative impact on headgaskets or not........

I wonder if anyone has any empirical data on this; under normal conditions, towing conditions, towing uphill, etc...?

[rcgreg]

I'm wondering if preventing the gasses from entering that system at some other point might be a better solution? The valve would then operate normally as it should.

[blizzardwarrior7]

By unplugging the EGR valve, are you preventing the exhaust gasses from entering the engine to be reburned? It seems to me, if you were you would have a power increase due to more oxygenated air being able to fill up the cylinders.

[da-bees]

As has already been stated,not reccommending that anyone disable the EGR. With that clear,I like this decussion because it explores an area that has not recieved enough attention previously. So let's talk farthur,and who knows,when and "if" regulations are relaxed,we know what if any benefit could be realized by simply stopping exhust flow at exit side of cooler as apposed to at the up-pipe. IMHO,I think it might add sugniffent life to the cooler because it would have to disapate less heat with the reduced amount of coolant that the partialy plugged oil cooler allows. The results would undoubtly be closly related to the eot & ect differince at the time action is taken. On a related note,I believe these engines needed a coolant filter or a clean block from the beginning ,or as soon as you can install it regardless of what else is done. Any other comments?

[johnny87]

Originally Posted by teamroper60

Maybe, maybe not... You definitely do for the most efficient burn. But, with the headbolt setup on the 6.0, you have to be careful, since higher heat/more complete burn will lead to higher cylinder pressures and those higher cylinder pressures can cause blown headgaskets....

The thing is, we know that removing it increases cylinder pressures but we don't really know how much. Without knowing how much, we don't know if removing it has a significant negative impact on headgaskets or not........

Exhaust gas recirculation lowers combustion temperatures to reduce the formation of nitrous oxides(NOx) not to protect the head gaskets from blowing. The process is intentionally inefficient for the sake of emissions. The introduction of a fresh air charge helps to remove heat and control cylinder temperatures otherwise(in lieu of EGR)

read this...
Southwest Labs EGR Diesel III | Centron Energy Corporation

[johnny87]

Originally Posted by da-bees

As has already been stated,not reccommending that anyone disable the EGR. With that clear,I like this decussion because it explores an area that has not recieved enough attention previously. So let's talk farthur,and who knows,when and "if" regulations are relaxed,we know what if any benefit could be realized by simply stopping exhust flow at exit side of cooler as apposed to at the up-pipe. IMHO,I think it might add sugniffent life to the cooler because it would have to disapate less heat with the reduced amount of coolant that the partialy plugged oil cooler allows. The results would undoubtly be closly related to the eot & ect differince at the time action is taken. On a related note,I believe these engines needed a coolant filter or a clean block from the beginning ,or as soon as you can install it regardless of what else is done. Any other comments?

The EPA have taken things this far and in my opinion the idea that the regulations will become less stringent is unlikely. That in my mind has as much probability as the return of leaded gas. I think we are stuck getting away with what we can(if anything at all) and places more emphasis on keeping the older engines running longer(aka 6.0, 7.3 etc).

I have a coolant filter on mine and I currently have about 10k miles on it since the last change. I cut my initial filter apart and did not see much and the current one still has good flow through it ( I checked it on 11/01/09). The casting sand problem at International must be really hit or miss. At best I noticed a small amount of deposition in my degas bottle which incidentally is what prompted me to install it. Since installation I have not noticed any more in my degas bottle which tells me I never had a lot of sand in the first place.

[da-bees]

Originally Posted by johnny87

The EPA have taken things this far and in my opinion the idea that the regulations will become less stringent is unlikely. That in my mind has as much probability as the return of leaded gas. I think we are stuck getting away with what we can(if anything at all) and places more emphasis on keeping the older engines running longer(aka 6.0, 7.3 etc).

I have a coolant filter on mine and I currently have about 10k miles on it since the last change. I cut my initial filter apart and did not see much and the current one still has good flow through it ( I checked it on 11/01/09). The casting sand problem at International must be really hit or miss. At best I noticed a small amount of deposition in my degas bottle which incidentally is what prompted me to install it. Since installation I have not noticed any more in my degas bottle which tells me I never had a lot of sand in the first place.

I think you are on target J-87. I wish we knew which IH plant,shift,date of mfg(if block and eng decal date is diff),and other data in a spreadsheet format. It is appearant that some blocks were cleaned better(like yours)which accounts for why some trucks suffer ongoing trouble and others never have a problem. It realy galls me that IH and/or has not addressed it already,because it would go a long way in letting owners know if they need to take remedial measures or not. I feel certain more EGR systems would remain unaltered so maybe the mfg should be forced by the gubment to look into it(ya,ya I know,fat chance)for the sake acomplishing reduction in what ever it is they are tryng to reduce. Anyway,your comments are relevant to meaningful discussion instead of bashing and blindly throwing money at these trucks. Ok I am suscribed.

[Strokin' 6.0]

Originally Posted by johnny87

The EPA have taken things this far and in my opinion the idea that the regulations will become less stringent is unlikely. That in my mind has as much probability as the return of leaded gas...

Funny you should say that. Back in 2003, I wish I could remember which state it was, I was driving through the SouthWest on an Indian Reservation with my 1972 402 Big Block Suburban and stopped at a Phillips 66 gas station. I had to do a double-take....they had High-Test Leaded. I asked the attendant if the pump really had High-Test, to which he replied with a big grin on his face, "Yes, Sir"! I filled up from "Empty"....that old Burb never ran as good as it did on that fillup.

I wonder if Reservations are exempt from Federal Law?

[teamroper60]

Originally Posted by johnny87

Exhaust gas recirculation lowers combustion temperatures to reduce the formation of nitrous oxides(NOx) not to protect the head gaskets from blowing.

That is true. However a side effect of lowering the combustion temperatures IS lower cylinder pressures. Another side effect of using EGR is that timing must be increased due to the slower burn.

So, if you increase the combustion temps and you will also raise cylinder pressure. In addition, with the cleaner, quicker burn, the timing will also be increased. Increased timing also raises cylinder pressures. So you are effectively raising cylinder pressures twice..

Again though, we don't know how much we are raising the pressures, so we don't fully know if the increase is enough to put the headgaskets in danger.....

[johnny87]

Yeah these message boards are invaluable for tracking issues and solutions to problems etc. I have learned quite a lot, at least enough to feel like I have a good handle on the proper operation and maintenance of this engine. I have often thought of unplugging my EGR valve or ponying up for a programmer(SCT) that limits the operation of the EGR valve to try and get some more MPG out of her. I decided to get the truck paid for first and let stuff like that wait.

[RatherBNtheWoods]

Originally Posted by BogSpores

I had my EGR cooler pop, causing a severe coolant leak and required replacement ASAP! The bill was over 2000, but warranty covered it!

Now I'm wondering whether or not disconnecting the electrical plug from the EGR solenoid will hurt anything? I live in BFE and have no emissions issues.

I've unplugged it before, and didn't notice ANYTHING, not even a Check Engine light!

Ideas? Suggestions? Thanks in advance!

Will it hurt anything? Yes. You don't get to pull it out and clean it every 10-20K miles.

[21xdbullet]

Or 07 550 we got back on friday after a EGR cooler and a oil cooler. It ran fine friday.
But after a couple hours on saturday it started over heating.Did they do something wrong or could the head gaskets be blown too?

[teamroper60]

Originally Posted by 21xdbullet

Or 07 550 we got back on friday after a EGR cooler and a oil cooler. It ran fine friday.
But after a couple hours on saturday it started over heating.Did they do something wrong or could the head gaskets be blown too?

Actually overheating or was it puking out the degas?

[johnny87]

Originally Posted by teamroper60

That is true. However a side effect of lowering the combustion temperatures IS lower cylinder pressures. Another side effect of using EGR is that timing must be increased due to the slower burn.

So, if you increase the combustion temps and you will also raise cylinder pressure. In addition, with the cleaner, quicker burn, the timing will also be increased. Increased timing also raises cylinder pressures. So you are effectively raising cylinder pressures twice..

Again though, we don't know how much we are raising the pressures, so we don't fully know if the increase is enough to put the headgaskets in danger.....

I am sure that there is a pressure /temperature relationship involved and I agree that timing would be affected. I also agree that in the absence of hard data we are guessing at what that change would be.

I do think however that the concept of Exhaust Gas Recirculation was never intended as a means of controlling cylinder pressure/temperature for the purpose of protecting the head gaskets. For instance, under heavy loads the EGR valve is closed. Factory programming does this. The EGR Valve only opens under light to medium load conditions. Therefore I think that the design of the engine already accounts for a shut EGR Valve.

[teamroper60]

Originally Posted by johnny87

I do think however that the concept of Exhaust Gas Recirculation was never intended as a means of controlling cylinder pressure/temperature for the purpose of protecting the head gaskets.

I never said that was the intended purpose. However, we cannot discount what is occurring. Often we do things for one reason (in this case emissions) and get other, secondary results as well... Likewise, if we alter the operation of something, there is also the possibility of secondary alterations that may not have been accounted for initially. Ford ran into this in early 03, when they started messing with the original programming... They monkeyed with it to stop the romping and ended up having to do a whole series of new flashes because each change presented a new, unforeseen problem.

Originally Posted by johnny87

For instance, under heavy loads the EGR valve is closed. Factory programming does this. The EGR Valve only opens under light to medium load conditions. Therefore I think that the design of the engine already accounts for a shut EGR Valve.

That is correct. The design accounts for no EGR at idle and WOT. Eliminating it will not affect CPs under those conditions.

However, the average 6.0 spends most of its life operating at light to medium throttle (engine load), where the EGR is open to some extent. So if we remove EGR, that change will affect the engine "where it lives".