EGR Cooler -Engine Failure - *PICTURES*

[05Duallyon22s]

Originally Posted by Strokin' 6.0

And if that letter to the CEO doesn't work, that's when I would just have to cut my nose off to spite my face....I would leave the truck and refuse to pay for anything....no repair fee, no more car payment, no more nothing....sometimes you have to stand up for the priciples you believe in, no matter the consequence. I really wouldn't care if it dinged my credit.

This really ticks me off.

I did this with my 97 cobra, with a blown motor at 11,000 miles.
Now it's common knowledge that the oil pumps let go and take out the motor, but not back then. The dealership had the car towed to a tow yard, fordmocredit went out and gave the tow yard my car in lieu of payment for storage (***?) and then tried to come after me for $90,000 for the car, so I declared bankruptcy (before the new laws), they could go F themselves..But thats the kind of lunacy that goes on there.

[bismic]

Did you have any glow plugs changed recently?

[johnny87]

really interested to hear how this plays out. I might have guessed that you'd get that from a dealer, some are better than others. I would not expect that from Ford corporate. I thought they were obligated to provide reason for denial. The warranty was the primary reason I took a chance on the 6.0. This would indicate that Ford can't get away from this engine fast enough. I have not had any problems with(engine) mine in 39K miles. You have to remember though it is one guy making this decision not a board. I'd go the letter to corporate route....

[44444444]

Originally Posted by bismic

Did you have any glow plugs changed recently?

Uh........come to think of it, I think they DID change a glowplug during my last EGR cooler replacement. (I'm going to have to look it up though) In any case, that was a couple thousand miles ago.

Why do you ask?

[44444444]

Originally Posted by johnny87

really interested to hear how this plays out. I might have guessed that you get that from a dealer, some are better than others. I would not expect that from Ford corporate. I thought they were obligated to provide reason for denial. The warranty was the primary reason I took a chance on the 6.0. This would indicate that Ford can't get away from this engine fast enough. I have not had any problems with(engine) mine in 39K miles.

Well, whatever happens, I'll post it. I REALLY didn't expect this level of difficulty, just to talk to Ford about a legit warranty claim. They DID give a reason of sorts.."foreign material in engine" but when they denied my claim, they didn't "authorize" further diagnosis or disassembly, which (according to the dealer) means THEY (the dealer) can't touch it, and because it's laying on the shop floor in several pieces, I can't touch it.

I got a call today from one of the regional Ford employees, but she isn't a tech and has no power to ask a field engineer to call me or authorize anything but denying my warranty claim. She said he MIGHT call if they could convince him.

Like you said...it's not what I expected, but maybe I'm just not being patient enough....lol

I don't mean to worry you, but my truck ran great up to about 70k and once this EGR stuff started, it's been downhill ever since. Keep a close eye on your overflow tank, and if you see the slightest purging or dried white residue around the cap, get in to the best dealer you can find and GET IT ON PAPER! lol

I had 4 consecutive cooling system repairs, but apparently that's not enough......

[teamroper60]

Originally Posted by 44444444

they tried to wash me out of my 100k mile warranty claim by saying "it's been over 3000 miles since the last time we replaced your EGR and cooler" and "you're too close to the end of the warranty to get a new engine"

Horse manure. I don't care if you are 2 miles from the warranty running out, the fact remains, it is still under the warranty. Furthermore, the fact it was repaired over 3000 miles ago makes no difference either...

Originally Posted by 44444444

The inspector from Ford came out, saw the piston crown damage, labeled it "foreign object---not warrantable" and left. The service manager told me that my warranty claim simply disappeared from his computer screen and there was nothing more to be done about it. When I asked, "so what did you find that caused the damage?" they told me they were not "allowed to go farther without authorization from Ford" so......believe it or not, I have been denied warranty coverage on the damage in the pictures below, before they have even STARTED to diagnose the problem that caused the damage.

If they don't know what caused the damage, then they cannot automatically deny the warranty. Just stating it was caused by a "foreign object" doesn't cut it. They need to identify the foreign object, then explain how it got there. If the object came from inside the engine, it is not a foreign object and thus, a manufacturing defect which would be covered.

I know you said you don't like attorneys and being a police officer, I don't blame you but this is one time I think you need one and apparently need one bad.

If it were me, I would have an attorney write a curt little letter to Ford. If that didn't work, I would go forward through the legal system. The oft-misquoted Magnusson-Moss Act states that in the event of a successful lawsuit over a breach of warranty, the consumer may be awarded the costs of bringing the suit to court and reasonable attorney fees.

By the way, get documentation of everything and save your pictures. In fact, if you can get to the truck, take more. Take pictures of everything.

[bismic]

In 2004 the design of the piston changed. This required the installation of a shorter glow plug by 1.2 mm. If the longer glow plugs are installed into an engine with updated pistons, glow plug to piston contact will result, ending in potential catostrophic engine failure.

Look it up and post the part number if a glow plug was replaced (and in which cylinder).

[teamroper60]

Originally Posted by bismic

In 2004 the design of the piston changed. This required the installation of a shorter glow plug by 1.2 mm. If the longer glow plugs are installed into an engine with updated pistons, glow plug to piston contact will result, ending in potential catostrophic engine failure.

Look it up and post the part number if a glow plug was replaced.

And if a glow plug was the object and said glow plug was installed by a Ford dealer, then Ford is on the hook for your damage. Plain and simple.....

[bismic]

I hope that is how it turns out for you!!!

[johnny87]

I like bismic's idea. You should have the part#'s of the installed glow plugs on the repair paperwork they gave for the warranty repair. I would also get the #'s physically off of the glow plug at the dealership.

[Gofaster23]

When was the truck apart last and who did it? That is a foreign object, it's real easy to drop something down the intake ports on the cylinder heads. My best guess is whoever had the intake manifold off (or EGR valve, ect) dropped a bolt down there. If the object finds the right spot it can get stuck in the intake manifold for a while, work it's way to the intake valves where it gets worn down until it's small enough to fit past the valves and into the cylinder. Ford is denying warranty coverage because a Ford part did not fail. You said the dealer fired the last tech for incompetence, well there you go. It's the dealer's responsibility (or whoever had it apart last) to fix it.

[44444444]

Originally Posted by teamroper60

Horse manure. I don't care if you are 2 miles from the warranty running out, the fact remains, it is still under the warranty. Furthermore, the fact it was repaired over 3000 miles ago makes no difference either...



If they don't know what caused the damage, then they cannot automatically deny the warranty. Just stating it was caused by a "foreign object" doesn't cut it. They need to identify the foreign object, then explain how it got there. If the object came from inside the engine, it is not a foreign object and thus, a manufacturing defect which would be covered.

I'm with you, TR! And I've spent the last month, jumping through hoops, listening to lame excuses that EVERYONE knows are poop, but it's hard to argue with someone who you can't find and can't talk to.

What bothers me is that my wife might have been the one to be getting the runaround. Or someone else who doesn't know any better than the goofy stories they're spinning.

I'd be a goner if I hadn't had tech experience in my past, and even then, look where it's got me!

[44444444]

Originally Posted by Gofasterdammit

When was the truck apart last and who did it? That is a foreign object, it's real easy to drop something down the intake ports on the cylinder heads. My best guess is whoever had the intake manifold off (or EGR valve, ect) dropped a bolt down there. If the object finds the right spot it can get stuck in the intake manifold for a while, work it's way to the intake valves where it gets worn down until it's small enough to fit past the valves and into the cylinder. Ford is denying warranty coverage because a Ford part did not fail. You said the dealer fired the last tech for incompetence, well there you go. It's the dealer's responsibility (or whoever had it apart last) to fix it.

Hi GFD, thanks for the theory, and the same dealer tech did the work on the first 3 times. We don't KNOW what caused the pictured damage because they (Ford) won't pay to take anything else apart to find out where the object came from or went to. If it was just a random bolt dropped down by mistake (and how many times have you worked on a something like a 4bbl carb with the air cleaner off and ...ooooooooops! ) then it might be justified to question where it came from. But they won't even look to find out what's missing!



I haven't TOUCHED this motor, for just this reason. I don't screw with anything under warranty. It's the fastest way to VOID a warranty. I just wish I could find out what that piston crown impression might be..

[44444444]

Originally Posted by bismic

In 2004 the design of the piston changed. This required the installation of a shorter glow plug by 1.2 mm. If the longer glow plugs are installed into an engine with updated pistons, glow plug to piston contact will result, ending in potential catostrophic engine failure.

Look it up and post the part number if a glow plug was replaced (and in which cylinder).

Excellent, bismic. I'll look this up in the morning. But wouldn't it have thrown a gp code? They didn't mention any other codes but the EGR code..

[44444444]

Originally Posted by bismic

In 2004 the design of the piston changed. This required the installation of a shorter glow plug by 1.2 mm. If the longer glow plugs are installed into an engine with updated pistons, glow plug to piston contact will result, ending in potential catostrophic engine failure.

Look it up and post the part number if a glow plug was replaced (and in which cylinder).

My truck is an '05, produced in Oct. 04. They wouldn't stock the longer one anymore, would they? Too much chance of piston contact, wouldn't it be?

(I better go to bed...I'm starting to sound like Yoda)