6.0L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super-Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.
But they did take off the head, as you stated. I'd be taking many more pictures of the piston and the head surface which hasn't been shown.
I'm just not sure that was a screw. Based on the piston width of 3.74", the object was approximately 1/4" in diameter and 1/2" long, with a somewhat pointed or rounded end. The "threads" really are not pitched, but more like annular rings. And I'm not sure what is going on at the bottom of the piston. Is that a hole or a shadow? If a hole, is the object down in the oil pan?
Hi Jack, when I said "self tapping screw", I really meant self-tapping but with a nut-driver head....the type of fastener that is normally used to join sheet metal ducting or fasten plastic components to each other or to the firewall, etc. (But of course, the head is gone, if that's the right description of the object, with only the threaded portion remaining)
The "hole" is just a shiny reflection of the piston dome. There wasn't a hole that I could see, but I didn't scrape it. I'm still holding out the hope for an actual Ford diagnosis.
44... I've seen many reports/pics on 6L, but AFAIK your's is 1st of its kind. Might set a thread speculation record on what foreign object was that caused damage/imprint on piston head. What was it..where did it come from..where did it go? Do you know how head & 4 valves for that cyl. looked?
Seem's regular calls to who ever is doing the reviewing needs doing. At some point in time a decision has to be made. Is your truck inside or out on back lot? Good luck.
btw..your told f.i. ok for that cyl., but how do you really know? TR has a point.
Yeah, I've got the pictures of the head and valves, but I don't see any real damage. The valve springs hadn't been removed and I was just standing there in my sport clothes taking these pictures, so I didn't get to play with the components...just photograph them.
I'll put up a picture of the head in a few minutes. If I could play with the valves and feel the valve travel, I could tell which ones had been bent and see the valve seat/pocket for other damage, but I don't *think* there's a foreign object in there. But with the valve springs still installed, there's not a lot I can do myself.
I've tried the regular calls. (to the dealer) I also tried the Ford hotline, and they simply refused to let me talk to the warranty guy who makes the decisions. They FINALLY gave me a Ford.com email address of a guy who's the area rep for South Texas, but I can't call him either...just Email. He sent a non-technical parts lady down to the dealership, but everything I said went way over her head (because she's not a tech) and she had no power to authorize my warranty repair either, so she basically just echoed the sentiment of the dealership.
It's a real travesty of justice from my point of view!
Considering the obvious accountability issues involved here, I would not be surprised if when the head was removed, the dealership took out whatever caused those marks and pitched it to prevent anyone else from knowing what it was.
LOL! .....yes, I have to admit, the thought has crossed my mind!
Particularly when everyone seems so adverse to doing actual diagnostic work to find what caused this! And if they DID get the Ford authorization, what stops them from finding it, THEN pitching it to CYA?
Quote:
Another thought though: I saw a piston that had an injector tip driven into it to the point the tip was flush with the piston's surface. Even knowing the tip was there, it was very hard to see. I would be examining that piston very carefully to be sure that whatever caused those marks is not embedded in it.
Yeah, if I can get someone to actually honor my warranty, you can bet that's the first thing I want to see when it comes out of the soup! (solvent tank)
I did, Timbo. The lemon laws only apply to newer low mileage vehicles. I think 24,000 miles is the cutoff point for the LL, but that doesn't mean the warranty isn't valid.
And I think that 4 times and a month in the shop is also necessary for the LL thing to apply.
I THINK MOST LEMON LAW ATTORNEYS WILL BE IN THE KNOW ABOUT WARRANTY LAWS YOURS IS NOT A LEMON BUT A INCOMPITANT TECH THAT WORKED FOR THAT DEALER THE EMPLOYER IS RESPONSABLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THEIR TECHS
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I THINK MOST LEMON LAW ATTORNEYS WILL BE IN THE KNOW ABOUT WARRANTY LAWS YOURS IS NOT A LEMON BUT A INCOMPITANT TECH THAT WORKED FOR THAT DEALER THE EMPLOYER IS RESPONSABLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THEIR TECHS
Yeah, that's my understanding too, Timbo. The laws of "agency" with regard to contract law, make the dealership AND Ford responsible for the actions of an incompetent tech, even if that tech is long gone!
But nobody at the dealership or Ford seems to care in my case! Maybe the magic key is getting a lawyer involved? Maybe all the rights to which I'm entitled, spring up out of the ground once the word "litigation" surfaces, but geeezzz......I hate dealing with lawyers and court and such. It's hard to watch other people making more money off of your problems, than what you get, being the victim!
I thought about becoming a lawyer once.... then I stopped that.
I'll put up a picture of the head in a few minutes. If I could play with the valves and feel the valve travel, I could tell which ones had been bent and see the valve seat/pocket for other damage, but I don't *think* there's a foreign object in there. But with the valve springs still installed, there's not a lot I can do myself.
I've tried the regular calls. (to the dealer) I also tried the Ford hotline, and they simply refused to let me talk to the warranty guy who makes the decisions. They FINALLY gave me a Ford.com email address of a guy who's the area rep for South Texas, but I can't call him either...just Email. He sent a non-technical parts lady down to the dealership, but everything I said went way over her head (because she's not a tech) and she had no power to authorize my warranty repair either, so she basically just echoed the sentiment of the dealership.
It's a real travesty of justice from my point of view!
OK, here's a picture of the head and valves. I'm pretty sure it's the right one, but I'm going to re-take all my pictures on Monday morning and ask to SEE the injectors and Gp's and all.
Whatever happens, this thread is going to save some of you A LOT OF GRIEF when your trucks get above 70,000 miles and this cooling system fault starts hitting you. I've been reading these forums for years, and I've never seen a harder one to diagnose, nor such a collective *YAWN* from the people I paid for my truck and it's WARRANTY.
I just hope that whoever reads this thread IN NEED in the future, has an easier time of it than I have!
Not a lot to see here, because as I mentioned, the valves springs were still installed, and they refused to pull them because Ford hadn't authorized any further diagnostic work.
And if a glow plug was the object and said glow plug was installed by a Ford dealer, then Ford is on the hook for your damage. Plain and simple.....
Have to disagree on that tidbit. Seems as though if a dealer caused the damage, warranty work or customer pay, the dealership is responsible. I'm sorta in the midst of something similar right now. Ford seems to consider me as the little ugly adopted stepchild.
2006 F350 CC LWB Dually XLT Oxford white manual 4x4 6.0 PSD 6 speed. 4.10 LS front and rear, Built May05. 4" turbo back, 100gal aux fuel tank. A real pig from a stop, but give me 10' and she'll lite'em up.
150K miles, 12 injectors, EGR cooler, Fuel pump, 8glow plugs, GPCM, FICM rebuilt FoMoCo longblock under 7/200 warranty.
I just went through this with my '06 250 Lariat. I admit up front two things: 1. I live in Calif where the laws are different and 2. My issues were not this serious but they were numerous. I contacted a lemon law attorney here in CA and sent them all my documentation. Long story short, (6 months later) Ford has settled with me out of court to the tune of $35k with a total buyback.
I'd be happy to give you the name of the firm I used (they do other states as well as CA). I'll bet you as soon as Ford gets word you have an attorney asking questions, this issue will get resolved. That is what happened in my case; I hired the attorney and suddenly a Master Tech wanted to see the truck.
Also, I bet your local news channels have a customer complaint segment (hotline) I'd also contact them. But I think you can get an attorney working for you in a snap. The Mangnussen Moss Warranty act allows for you to recoup attorney fees (which Ford paid in my case).
Good luck and let me know if you want the name of the firm I used.
Craig
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Have to disagree on that tidbit. Seems as though if a dealer caused the damage, warranty work or customer pay, the dealership is responsible. I'm sorta in the midst of something similar right now. Ford seems to consider me as the little ugly adopted stepchild.
Are you writing this up somewhere? (I mean like a thread like this) I'd be interested in reading it, and I'll bet a lot of FUTURE readers of this thread would be too!
In my case, I wonder if that's why Ford is being so hard to get ahold of? They KNOW what the problem is, and they KNOW it was the dealer's fault, and they just don't want to say anything to ME because they know I'm not going to fall for some lame excuse like, "You weren't using Motorcraft wiper blades" or something..
I just went through this with my '06 250 Lariat. I admit up front two things: 1. I live in Calif where the laws are different and 2. My issues were not this serious but they were numerous. I contacted a lemon law attorney here in CA and sent them all my documentation. Long story short, (6 months later) Ford has settled with me out of court to the tune of $35k with a total buyback.
I'd be happy to give you the name of the firm I used (they do other states as well as CA). I'll bet you as soon as Ford gets word you have an attorney asking questions, this issue will get resolved. That is what happened in my case; I hired the attorney and suddenly a Master Tech wanted to see the truck.
Also, I bet your local news channels have a customer complaint segment (hotline) I'd also contact them. But I think you can get an attorney working for you in a snap. The Mangnussen Moss Warranty act allows for you to recoup attorney fees (which Ford paid in my case).
Good luck and let me know if you want the name of the firm I used.
Craig
Hi Craig, thanks for the reply. I talked to a lemon law attorney, and although he was "free" and national (like you said) he didn't take vehicles that had more than 24,000 miles (i think) and they had to have been in the shop more than 4 times.
I've been FLABBERGASTED at the number of 6.0L EGR problems and the damage they caused, now that I'm reading it all and a victim myself.
A lawyer could make a pretty good career out of just litigating 6.0L problems, if the forums are any guide!
Oh yeah, and why don't you just put the name and contact info on this thread, because someone reading in the future might benefit? (i hope that's not breaking forum rules..)
Imho the reason no body is talking anymore is because they are waiting to hear from your lawyer. They all know it is going to eventually go that direction. But like i said before, ford is not going to get involved, hence why they sent the "parts lady" to the dealer. This way they can say they took a look but determined it was not a manufacturer flaw. Other side of the fence, since they fired this guy you may not be the only one that is going after them for something he did...
Imho the reason no body is talking anymore is because they are waiting to hear from your lawyer. They all know it is going to eventually go that direction. But like i said before, ford is not going to get involved, hence why they sent the "parts lady" to the dealer. This way they can say they took a look but determined it was not a manufacturer flaw. Other side of the fence, since they fired this guy you may not be the only one that is going after them for something he did...
Yeah, I'm afraid you might be right, RD. I was talking about this with my wife, and with the number of people complaining about this same problem, they may have decided to raise the level of commitment necessary to get a warranty response on these 6.0L cooling problems. (or ANY response for that matter)
I sent off another "poison pen" letter to Ford today, clearly outlining the 4 identical initial complaints and gently trying to "shame" them into honoring their obligation, but I don't know if it'll do much good.
Next week is shaping up to be a "green shoots" week for local lawyers.
Have you looked at the piston closely yourself? Use a pick and dig the object out of the piston and post a picture of JUST the object. It is hard to see it in the picture with the glare of the flash. Make sure you have plenty of pictures of object embedded in piston, then dig around/use side cutters to cut aluminum out, to get object out of piston to get a better look. It appears that the wire has an object attached to it and it is embedded in piston.
While I havent had a catastrophic failure like yours, I just had to replace my second high pressure oil pump in 6 months. I had 18000 miles on it so it is out of warranty. It had 106k on it when the first one went out along with a bunch of other stuff totalling $7k. I was able to keep a cool head when speaking to a factory rep and he said they will be helping me out. Try to put the FMC guy in your shoes (especially since you are under warranty) and see if a cool calculated head will prevail.
Have you looked at the piston closely yourself? Use a pick and dig the object out of the piston and post a picture of JUST the object. It is hard to see it in the picture with the glare of the flash. Make sure you have plenty of pictures of object embedded in piston, then dig around/use side cutters to cut aluminum out, to get object out of piston to get a better look. It appears that the wire has an object attached to it and it is embedded in piston.
Hi Djshum, thanks for the reply. I can't touch the engine myself, in case Ford DOES decide to do the right thing. They wouldn't let me work on it in their shop for one thing, but if I DID get to work on it there, they would tell me that my warranty is canceled because it doesn't cover my wrenching on my own vehicle. (or something to that effect)
Lol....maybe it's just late and I'm punchy but I'm constant amazed that this is happening. I've never heard of a customer being stuck in limbo like this, mainly because most manufacturers try to avoid having legitimate claims look as bad as this, AND most dealerships know that this kind of thing costs more than it saves.
But yeah, cutting the piston carefully in half and exposing the embedded object would be one of the first tries on my list. I think that piece of wire is a clue just waiting to happen.
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Ford repurchased my 2006 Ford F250 Superduty 4x4 Crew Cab, Lariat Package, Fx4 Package, 156" Wheelbase, 6.0l V8 Diesel, Torqueshift 5spd Auto Transmission, Dark Stone Metallic Clearcoat Exterior With Arizona Beige Clearcoat Metallic Two-Tone Accents, 3.73 Ratio Limited Slip Axle, 12.5k Trailer Hitch Tow Command System, Trailer Brake Controller, Line-X Bed Liner And 18" Polished Forged Aluminum Wheels.
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