6.0L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super-Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.
While I havent had a catastrophic failure like yours, I just had to replace my second high pressure oil pump in 6 months. I had 18000 miles on it so it is out of warranty. It had 106k on it when the first one went out along with a bunch of other stuff totalling $7k. I was able to keep a cool head when speaking to a factory rep and he said they will be helping me out. Try to put the FMC guy in your shoes (especially since you are under warranty) and see if a cool calculated head will prevail.
I've been VERY cool about this with all the Ford people, Tom. That's why I can't understand why the people with authority to authorize my legitimate warranty repair, won't even talk to me! The dealership guys are what you'd expect... all denial, all hoops to jump through to nowhere, and no help whatsoever. The FoMoCo guys are the mystery.
What kind of warranty decisions DO they make, if my FOUR CONSECUTIVE SAME-COMPLAINT WARRANTY CLAIM isn't enough to stir their technical curiousity?
Nice work if you can get it, I suppose! They're probably sitting in a nice warm chair somewhere, laughing their ***es off about this hapless Texan guy who hasn't figured out that they don't move until the lawsuit comes (ahahahha!) What a riot, huh?
has anyone removed the piston and checked for wormed out or walked ring as i seen one that worked its way somehow out of ring land and no sign of exit piont on piston untill removed and inspected,also back in 04 i saw one that had a small bolt left in intake from factory and looked somewat like that after bein smashed around,,,,,,,,,also you should check intake air temp manifold sensor,tip could have done that ,also intake air plate screw on throttle plate looks somewhat like that.........no wonder i no longer work for ford ,,,go easy on tech as he probably didnt get payed for the job!!!!
OK my eyes started to blurry reading here so I didn't read all the posts, SO has anyone said that this could be part of a tool. the wire object with the base attached to it could be a tiny jewelers screwdriver blade or maybe a pick of sort, and the bolt looking object could be the retainer tip that screws onto a handle. Those marks dont seam to be angled like a thread would be, but it could be knurled rings on the tip for gripping. With that intake off, those runners are wide open when the EGR work was performed. It could of fallen out of Techs shirt pocket or something while leaning over engine. I dont know what it would be used for on THIS job but its just a thought. I've built thousands of gasser over the 25 yrs in a machine shop I worked at so every so often I was confronted with foreign object ID. If those are indeed threads it looks more like a set screw because of the absense of a head on the object. GOOD LUCK BUDDY ! my brother in laws doing EGR / OIL cooler right now and I have him look at your pics tomarrow and have him keep an I out for anything that might look like that. I would be over there but he's 500 miles away.
The subject of warranty or oil cooler failure keeps coming up. This is neither.
This is a foreign object introduced into the engine during motor repair.
Jack, the EGR codes present, and the usual (for me, anyway) purging of coolant from the overflow and steam from the exhaust, slightly BEFORE the mechanical noise started...make it almost impossible to be unrelated to the cooling system, imo.
I mean, ANYTHING is theoretically possible and we saw multiple problems on customer vehicles all the time. But not occurring simultaneously like this.
If you're willing, put on your thinking cap and assume that there WAS a long-standing head gasket leak (and not just a cooler design problem that they replaced twice on my truck, so far) What circumstances can you think of, that would cause something to break loose and become lodged in the combustion chamber?
There's the perpetually hotter running and possibly hydrolock (which happened overnight when sitting at the dealers during one of the first repairs) I haven't seen the injector tip, nor the glow plug that came out of the hole and I'm not sure I believe anything the dealer says anymore. There's also the contamination of the engine oil and corrosive nature of coolant. There's also the sludge buildup that's mentioned in one of the TSB's for the EGR cooler replacement and special critical flushing procedure with a Ford flush product. And there's the story of "casting sand" being present in the crankcase on these earlier models, leading to sludge and causing failures, just to name a few I can think of off the top of my head.
Just fyi, the compression test (they finally did THIS time, after I asked them the previous 3 times to do, but they never did) came back with this damaged cylinder dead (no compression) and one other opposing cylinder low. The oil and fuel filter were fine, not dirty or plugged, and I think they did the "relative compression" type of test (which I HATE because it tells you just about nothing regarding the general engine condition, but I guess it's a lot harder to do a real leakdown or compression test on these beasts)
If you're in the mood, just throw out some possible ideas...sort of brainstorming session.
You guys are waaaayy ahead of me in knowing this engine. I only know what I've read, because the only 6.0L engine I own is apart on a shop floor and I haven't touched it with a wrench because it's still (HA HA) under WARRANTY.
OK my eyes started to blurry reading here so I didn't read all the posts, SO has anyone said that this could be part of a tool. the wire object with the base attached to it could be a tiny screwdriver blade or maybe a prick of sort, and the bolt looking object is the retainer tip that screws onto a handle. Those marks dont seam to be angled like a thread would be, but it could be knurled rings on the tip for gripping. With that intake off, those runners are wide open when the EGR work was performed. It could of fallen out of Techs shirt pocket while leaning over engine. I dont know what it would be used for on THIS job but its just a thought. I've built thousands of gasser over the 25 yrs in a machine shop I worked at so every so often I was confronted with foreign object ID. If those are indeed threads it looks more like a set screw because of the absense of a head on the object. GOOD LUCK BUDDY ! my brother in laws doing EGR / OIL cooler right now and I have him look at your pics tomarrow and have him keep an I out for anything that might look like that. I would be over there but he's 500 miles away.
Hey Boomboom, thanks for that detailed analysis. I've done the same thing a million times ... leaning over a gasser and oops... down the rabbit hole! I didn't have a ruler with me, or I would have shown scale on the photos, but one guy said he thought it was probably a 1/4" thread diameter. I hadn't thought about a tool, or a pick but I always found that the tools I used the most were the ones I made or modified from the Snap On truck. (so it might not look like an ordinary tool)
I don't think the wire part is thick enough to be the shaft of a screwdriver. And yeah, please do let your brother in law know to look for anything that comes loose from the inside of the intake. The only one I own is down at the dealer!
I'll betcha this is going to surprise everyone, if I can ever get Ford to do some actual DIAGNOSIS!
has anyone removed the piston and checked for wormed out or walked ring as i seen one that worked its way somehow out of ring land and no sign of exit piont on piston untill removed and inspected,also back in 04 i saw one that had a small bolt left in intake from factory and looked somewat like that after bein smashed around,,,,,,,,,also you should check intake air temp manifold sensor,tip could have done that ,also intake air plate screw on throttle plate looks somewhat like that.........no wonder i no longer work for ford ,,,go easy on tech as he probably didnt get payed for the job!!!!
Lol Northdriver....I've always heard that Ford techs EARN THEIR MONEY! But I've always had Ford trucks and gotten good life out of them up until now. Ironically, I shelled out the extra $$$ because I had heard that the earlier Ford diesels were pretty good and I have a friend who's 7.3 went to almost 400k miles without a major rebuild. (HIS problem was keeping the rest of the truck together around the still-running like a top engine!)
The piston is still in the block, just like the picture. Ford won't pay to diagnose. They just denied my warranty so that they wouldn't have to get their hands dirty and actually find the problem.
I'll keep the MAT and throttle plate screw in mind when I talk with them again. That's a BIG throttle plate screw thread diameter, if that's what it is! Otoh, the impression on the piston crown is BOUND to look larger than the object, just because it probably got pounded in the same place a couple of hundred times or more before it jumped over to another area...
The "foreign object left in by the tech on the previous repair" theory seems to be pretty popular. I just wish it was easy (or even possible) to prove! The dealership is trying to deny responsibility for ANYTHING, even though the tech has since been fired.
44444444; I did talk to my brother in law and he had already seen this post and he's been on the look out for anything this could be but no bits or pieces look like this as of yet, he's in the process of putting thing back together now. Keep you informed.
Jack, the EGR codes present, and the usual (for me, anyway) purging of coolant from the overflow and steam from the exhaust, slightly BEFORE the mechanical noise started...make it almost impossible to be unrelated to the cooling system, imo. ........
OR .... the part entered the combustion chamber, the jamming of the object between the piston and head at TDC lifted the head and allowed for the compromise of the head/block seal causing the overflow and steam. The cooler itself may be fine, which you would not know until teardown examination.
__________________
Jack
Former Vehicle Test Manager - Friction Products
I say piece of turbo blade. How come the piston looks real sloppy in the bore? It would be nice to see if all the pieces of piston rings are there as well and not broken off. I had that happen once, took out some valves and that cylinder.
Take an oil sample and coolant sample if there is any left, this may help if it goes to court. We had an engine failure on a 3508 Cat and found foreign material in the base. We had the foreign material tested and the oil tested and determined through this analysis that the engine was sabotaged by someone as the tests proved that the material was not part of the oil nor the engine. The insurance company paid up after that determined. It wasn't fun, it was battle right to the end. STICK TO YOUR GUNS AND DON'T BACK DOWN.
There was something foreign in there that is for sure.
__________________
K3 F350 6.0l 4x4, Crew cab, Lariat, shortbox, T.red, 285 BFG All Terrains, Sirius Radio, SS Grille, Silverstar fog and headlights, Boost and Fuel pressure gauges-Lunar Series Autometer. KYB MonoMax shocks 5w40 Delvac 1 13.7 mpg town.
"I haven't been able to find a picture of these, because MAN, are there ever a lot of google hits on 6.0L engine problems! "
Sure their are/were problems with this motor. I had someone email a picture of there odometer reading with over 400,000km on the clock, that's pretty good.
My truck was in for warranty constantly during the warranty period. After the warranty ended the engine blew it's headgaskets.
I got my quotes on getting it fixed, my dealer was actually the 2nd cheapest by a long shot.
I got the work done a performance shop where I felt no "upsell" . Anyways it's been a year since the work was done and no problems. Before it wouldn't run 5 mos without the doctor putting a bandaid on it.
I've had my truck since new and it was never programmed believe it or not. The engine is a great design, they just added a bunch of cheap crap so the consumers can test it first....oops too many warranty claims...........we'll build a new motor.........6.4l.........oops we don't like our supplied engine, we'll build our own.
Who's the next guinea pig.
By the way I like my truck now that it's fixed and I am keeping it. 165,000 km.
__________________
K3 F350 6.0l 4x4, Crew cab, Lariat, shortbox, T.red, 285 BFG All Terrains, Sirius Radio, SS Grille, Silverstar fog and headlights, Boost and Fuel pressure gauges-Lunar Series Autometer. KYB MonoMax shocks 5w40 Delvac 1 13.7 mpg town.
44444444; I did talk to my brother in law and he had already seen this post and he's been on the look out for anything this could be but no bits or pieces look like this as of yet, he's in the process of putting thing back together now. Keep you informed.
Great Boomboom! And thanks. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it gives me comfort to know that other people are noticing this problem and I'm not the only pair of eyes watching this thread.
I know that the mere MENTION of "internet forums" starts the tech's eyes rolling at dealerships all over America, but this forum has the credibility (imo) that some others lack. There's been some really good observations made in this thread that will, no doubt, be of use to a great many other early 6.0L owners because I was one of the first to bite, and there's a whole bunch of 6.0L's owners who are in the same boat as me, they just don't know it yet.
OR .... the part entered the combustion chamber, the jamming of the object between the piston and head at TDC lifted the head and allowed for the compromise of the head/block seal causing the overflow and steam. The cooler itself may be fine, which you would not know until teardown examination.
Hi Jack, I bought a diesel because I felt that it was built so much heavier that it would last longer. (and most of 'em do!)
You can see the indents on the aluminum alloy (I assume) piston, but no indents on the cast iron head. And I read someplace that the head bolt toque is waaaaaaay high on these, with THREE 90 degree torque-to-yield pulls, AFTER the inital 3rd pull of 80+ ft/lb's or so!
That's an awful lot of clamping force!
But (I think I mentioned this before) I have my old OTC 4 gas analyzer in the workshop and I've been able to measure incremental hc at the overflow, ever since the problem began....before AND after the initial repair. I TOLD THEM I suspected a head gasket, but they don't listen to a darn thing you tell them.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
They're probably sitting in a nice warm chair somewhere, laughing their ***es off about this hapless Texan guy who hasn't figured out that they don't move until the lawsuit comes (ahahahha!) What a riot, huh? 
2003 Mastercraft X9
Linear Mode
