EGR replacement under emissions warranty

[Jon P.]

My 2005 Excursion (6.0L) had an EGR valve clog up this summer. I ended up taking it to a dealer who does a lot of work on diesels. They've worked on mine in the past, and I've always been pleased with their work.

They pulled the EGR valve and told me that it was so coked up it should be replaced.

My vehicle is still within the 5 year/100K miles emissions warranty (as well as the engine warranty). The dealer told me that the emissions warranty only applies if the valve fails for some reason other than coking. In other words, it it just clogs, it's not covered, but if it failed electrically, for example, it would be covered. I just paid the bill and left.

I've now got another CEL, and the codes and symptoms (hard start, very rough running, etc.) strongly suggest a bad FICM. I pulled out the emissions warranty (which I had not done when the EGR valve went bad. I called the same dealer back and they told me that if it's the FICM, it's covered under the emissions warranty. I pointed out that the warranty says that the EGR valve is covered, and wondered why I was charged for the EGR valve. The dealer repeated what he had told me before -- coking is not covered.

I called Ford to ask about this issue. They called the dealer. The dealer told them that Ford had sent a TSB that apparently says that excessive carbon deposits are the result of "poor maintainance," and that the dealer had determined that this was the cause of the clogging. I've always maintained my vehicle in accordance with the service manual, so I don't see how he could conclude that there is improper maintenance.

It seems to me that the reason these things clog is because they are poorly designed. If they clogged as a result of improper maintenance, then you would expect only a small portion of EGR valves to clog. As I understand it, every single one clogs eventually. So it's a bad design (or just necessarily inherent in the design). Which means it should be covered under the warranty, it seems to me.

Has anyone else had a similar experience? It seems to me like Ford is trying to save money by blaming the customer for failures that are the result of their design.

[4ceFed]

These trucks did have EGR coking issues which was a result of EGR flowing at idle. Ford came out with a reflash years ago that fixed this problem. Sounds like you just needed a reflash which is not covered under the 100k diesel engine warranty. The emissions warranty on a diesel in only to 50k fyi.

[69cj]

Originally Posted by 4ceFed

These trucks did have EGR coking issues which was a result of EGR flowing at idle. Ford came out with a reflash years ago that fixed this problem. Sounds like you just needed a reflash which is not covered under the 100k diesel engine warranty. The emissions warranty on a diesel in only to 50k fyi.

80,000 in my manual

[bismic]

Originally Posted by 69cj

80,000 in my manual

Your engine emissions warranty is 100k. The verbiage below is from the 2005 warranty manual. Our trucks are over 8500 GVWR.

EMISSIONS DEFECT WARRANTY COVERAGE
During the warranty coverage period, Ford Motor Company warrants that:

• your vehicle or engine is designed, built, and equipped to meet - at the time it is sold - the emissions regulations of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

• your vehicle or engine is free from defects in factory-supplied materials or workmanship that could prevent it from conforming with applicable EPA regulations.

• you will not be charged for diagnosis, repair, replacement, or adjustment of defective emissions-related parts listed under

What is Covered?
on pages 13-15.

The warranty coverage period for:
• Passenger cars, light duty trucks (vehicles with a GVWR of 8,500 pounds or less, or over 8,500 pounds if certified to light duty emission standards)
— 8 years or 80,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for catalytic converter, powertrain control module, onboard emissions diagnostic device, natural gas vehicle (NGV) module (Bi-fuel/CNG), electronic emission control unit, and transmission control module;
— 3 years or 36,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for all other covered parts.

• Heavy duty vehicles (vehicles with a gross vehicle weight over 8,500

pounds)
— 5 years or 100,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for covered diesel engine parts;
— 5 years or 50,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for all other covered
parts.

EMISSIONS PERFORMANCE WARRANTY COVERAGE

Under Emissions Performance Warranty Coverage, Ford Motor Company will repair, replace, or adjust - with no charge for labor, diagnosis, or parts - any emissions control device or system, if you meet all of the following conditions:

• You have maintained and operated your vehicle according to the instructions on proper care in the Owner Guide, the Scheduled Maintenance Guide and this booklet.
• Your vehicle fails to conform, during the warranty coverage period, to the applicable national EPA standards, as determined by an EPA approved inspection and maintenance program.

WHAT IS COVERED?

These parts are covered by both the Emissions Defect Warranty and the Emissions Performance Warranty.

List of Parts Covered by Emissions Warranties For Cars, Light Duty Trucks and Heavy Duty Vehicles
• Air Flow Sensor
• Air/Fuel Feedback Control System and Sensors
• Air Induction System
• Altitude Compensation System
• Catalytic Converter
• Cold Start Enrichment System
• Cold Start Fuel Injector (1)
• Controls for Deceleration
• Electronic Ignition System
• Exhaust Pipe (Manifold to Catalyst)
• Electronic Emissions Control Unit (ECU)
• Electronic Engine Control Sensors and Switches
• Evaporative Emission Control System
• Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System
• Exhaust Heat Control Valve
• Exhaust Manifold
• Fuel Filler Cap and Neck Restrictor
• Fuel Injection System
• Fuel Injector Supply Manifold
• Fuel Sensor (1)
• Fuel Tank (non diesel only)
• Fuel Tank Pressure Control Valve (1)
• Idle Air Bypass Valve
• Ignition Coil and/or Control Module
• Intake Manifold
• Intercooler Assembly - Engine Charger
• Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)/On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) System
• PCV System and Oil Filler Cap
• Powertrain Control Module
• Secondary Air Injection System
• Spark Control Components
• Spark Plugs and Ignition Wires
• Synchronizer Assembly
• Throttle Body Assembly (MFI)
• Transmission Control Module (TCM)
• Turbocharger Assembly
• NGV module (Bi-fuel/CNG)

List of Parts Covered for 5 Years or 100,000 Miles (whichever occurs first) by Emissions Warranties for Diesel Engines

• Air Flow Sensor
• Air Fuel Feedback Control System and Sensors
• Cold Start Enrichment System
• Electronic Engine Control Sensors and Switches
• Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System
• Exhaust Manifold
• Fuel Injection System
• Intercooler Assembly - Engine Charger
• Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
• Turbocharger Assembly

Important Information About List of Parts
Also covered by the two emissions warranties are all emissions-related bulbs, hoses, clamps, brackets, tubes, gaskets, seals, belts, connectors, non diesel fuel lines, and wiring harnesses that are used with components on the list of parts, above.

Concerning parts that should be replaced on a certain maintenance schedule: these parts remain under warranty until : (a) the first replacement time that is specified in your Owner Guide and the Scheduled Maintenance Guide; or (b) the time or mileage limits of the Federal Defect and Performance Warranties (whichever occurs first). Your Ford Motor Company dealer maintains a complete list of parts covered by emissions warranties. For more details about the specific parts covered by the Emissions Defect Warranty, contact your dealer.

WHAT IS NOT COVERED?
Ford Motor Company may deny you warranty coverage if your vehicle or
a part has failed because of abuse, neglect, improper maintenance, unapproved modifications, or any items included in What Is Not Covered?, pages 7-9.

[Jon P.]

Originally Posted by 4ceFed

These trucks did have EGR coking issues which was a result of EGR flowing at idle. Ford came out with a reflash years ago that fixed this problem. Sounds like you just needed a reflash which is not covered under the 100k diesel engine warranty. The emissions warranty on a diesel in only to 50k fyi.

I think that the federal emissions warranty is 5 years/100K on mine. That's what's in the manual. And the dealer just replaced the FICM under the emissions warranty, and I've got over 50K miles (but under 5 years).

They reflashed it when they replaced the EGR valve, but it had not been reflashed before that. So that may have been the problem.

I told the dealer that they all eventually clog, and he agreed with me. But he had to charge me, since it's clear that Ford won't pay him for a coked EGR valve under warranty (he showed me the notice from Ford). What annoys me is that Ford avoids its responsibility under the warranty by claiming lack of maintenance (which suggests that it's the owner's fault), when the real issue is that the valve is either poorly designed or will inherently clog, no matter what the user does.

[bismic]

You need to contact Ford customer Service with this. If they do not help, contact the EPA. The EGR valve IS INTENDED TO BE COVERED by the EPA (as long as you operated the vehicle as intended AND you did not modify it).

Also, the FICM is covered for 100k miles - it is CLEARLY part of the Fuel Injection System.

Ford Motor Company
Customer Relationship Center
P.O. Box 6248
Dearborn, MI 481211-800-392-3673
(FORD)(TDD for the hearing impaired:
1-800-232-5952)
Owner Support - Ford

Manager, Certification and Compliance Division
(6405J)
Warranty Claims
Environmental Protection Agency
Ariel Rios building
1200 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.Washington, D.C. 20460

[RyanG1313]

Originally Posted by Jon P.

...Ford had sent a TSB that apparently says that excessive carbon deposits are the result of "poor maintainance," ...

Ok, just for the sake of argument, let's assume this is true. Since none of us wants to do any "poor maintainance", what maintainance, exactly, should be performed to prevent excessive carbon deposits on the EGR valve?

[4ceFed]

Originally Posted by Jon P.

I think that the federal emissions warranty is 5 years/100K on mine. That's what's in the manual. And the dealer just replaced the FICM under the emissions warranty, and I've got over 50K miles (but under 5 years).

They reflashed it when they replaced the EGR valve, but it had not been reflashed before that. So that may have been the problem.

I told the dealer that they all eventually clog, and he agreed with me. But he had to charge me, since it's clear that Ford won't pay him for a coked EGR valve under warranty (he showed me the notice from Ford). What annoys me is that Ford avoids its responsibility under the warranty by claiming lack of maintenance (which suggests that it's the owner's fault), when the real issue is that the valve is either poorly designed or will inherently clog, no matter what the user does.

The FICM is covered under the 100k engine warranty, as are EGR valves injectors, turbos etc. Federal emissions warranty items such as catalytic converters and pcm recalibrations are only covered 5/50k on a diesel. Parts covered under the 100k mile warranty usually start with a 6,9 or 12. Anything else and its not covered to 100k.