Hard to start 06 6.0

[mobeydick]

Hard to start, long cranks, finally spins fast enough. NO DTCs but the Information center sometimes while cranking will read TBC Fault! Anyone have a guess?!

[weasel79]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mobeydick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hard to start, long cranks, finally spins fast enough. NO DTCs but the Information center sometimes while cranking will read TBC Fault! Anyone have a guess?! </div></div>

Is it a hard start when warm, cold? Does it spin slow at first, then speed up or slow all the time? Last filter service?
Not much to go on......

[mobeydick]

It doesn't matter about Engine Temp. It will do it right after I shut it off. Or when it cold. It doesn't sound like the Starter is draging or spinning to slow. Although it will kill the Radio sometimes. It sounds like normal cranking but it just will not fire. Then the starting speed will get a little faster like it's finally getting fuel in a gasser then it fires. FF was changed 10K ago.

[JohnyLingo]

Just got mine back from the shop for a problem like this. Started not starting on first try or having to crank for a long time finally died on my Friday night at 1:30AM and wouldn't start. Also had a rattle that sounded like my down pipe would vibrate at 900 RPM. Turns out to be a TSB#06-17-6. The tech says mine was cranking at 210 psi not th 500 that is required to fire the injectors. Not sure if your would be this but sounds close. Mine they replaced this HPO fitting with this kit below. Also this was covered under power train warranty, minus the $100 deductible.


From: http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/60bulletin.htm

2005-07 F-SuperDuty/Excursion No-Start, High Pressure Oil System Leak:
Some trucks may develop an oil leak at the high pressure oil pump outlet fitting. This will cause a no-start condition as the computer needs to see at least 500 PSI before it will activate the injectors. In some cases the no-start will be intermittent and/or an intermittent stall with no codes will occur. If high pressure oil leak diagnosis indicates a leak at the pump, the pump outlet fitting (W301727) and the discharge tube block should be replaced with fitting and bracket kit 4C3Z-9B246-A. Do not torque the outlet fitting beyond 38 ft/lbs. If the leak is traced to the branch tube running through the engine block, replace with P/N 5C3Z9J332-B (requires removal of the transmission, flywheel and rear engine cover; new flywheel bolts required). TSB 06-14-6.
The following bulletin may be related:
Metal Tapping Noise from Rear of Engine:
Excursions built after 1-10-05 and 2005/06 F-SuperDuty may have a metal tapping noise from the rear of the engine on decel or light acceleration, or under loads when the high oil pressure is at higher levels. This may be due to a damaged/improperly fitting HP oil pump output quick connect fitting. To diagnose, you will need a scan tool with active command capability. Command the IRP duty cycle to 45% and listen at the high pressure oil pump cover with a stethoscope as the engine speed is increased to 2800 RPM. If the noise is louder on the pump cover than on other parts of the engine, the pump cover will need to come off to inspect and replace the fitting. Broadcast Message 5511.

[Motoxxxracer309]

That is what it most likely is..many of the the '05 and later model 6.0 need this.. The fitting on the HP pump blows out and they have a kit with a new tube and bracket to help prevent it from blowing the fitting. It could also be a bad o-ring in the rail which can be easily tested for by the tech..but it is most likely the fitting.

[mobeydick]

It will not start at all not. Got to take it to the Dealer!!

[CAMPINGTOM]

Please let us know the outcome.

[mobeydick]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mobeydick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It doesn't matter about Engine Temp. It will do it right after I shut it off. Or when it cold. It doesn't sound like the Starter is draging or spinning to slow. Although it will kill the Radio sometimes. It sounds like normal cranking but it just will not fire. Then the starting speed will get a little faster like it's finally getting fuel in a gasser then it fires. FF was changed 10K ago. </div></div>

I think the Dealership is BSing me. They say they have looked at it and it is the Oil leak when hot. They said they have to tear it apart (he said 9 Hours)Then put it back togather and it still might not get all the leaks. Something tells me they don't want to do it because they can't make any money on it under warranty!

How long should it really take to do the TSB#06-17-6 work?!

[PowerStrokeHD]

Originally Posted by mobeydick

How long should it really take to do the TSB#06-17-6 work?!

There are different "operations" for this TSB, so how long it will take will depend on the operation your truck would need. Mind you the following is what Ford pays and not necessarly how long it will take your tech.

Operation 061706A - 8 hours

2005-2007 Super Duty, 2005 Excursion 6.0L 4X2/4X4 All Transmissions: Perform PC/ED Lead Diagnosis, Install STC Bracket And/Or Replace The Snap To Connect (STC) Fittings, Road Test To Verify Repair: (This Labor Operation Is All Inclusive And May Not Be Claimed With Other Labor Operations)


Operation 061706F - 16.4 hours

2005-2007 Super Duty, 2005 Excursion 6.0L 4X4 Automatic Transmission: Perform PC/ED Lead Diagnosis, Replace The Branch Tube Install STC Bracket And/Or Replace The Snap To Connect (STC) Fittings, Road Test To Verify Repair: (This Labor Operation Is All Inclusive And May Not Be Claimed With Other Labor Operations)


For more information related to the subject you may want to check out the following links...

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articl...icle-07-08.php

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articl...icle-06-10.php

[fordboyyfm]

thats just what it pays too, after doing a few of them you can do it in half the time. hard part is usually diagnosing the leak. its kinda hard to tell sometimes especially with the engine all together. with both valve covers off and hpop cpver off its easy.
but it could be injector orings, oil rail orings, stand pipe orings or the pipe its self, the stc fitting, the branch tube or it could be a stuck ipr or weak pump.

[maarmour]

My 06 suddenly had the same symptoms. I dropped it of at the dealership today. We will see what they say.

[maarmour]

Dealer called today and the truck has no DTCs and they say it is starting fine. They did ask me what brand of oil I am using. I told them I used Delo400 and Rotella T. I have Rotella T Synthetic 5W40 in it now and they thought that might be the problem. I find it hard to believe because it just started this all of a sudden and I have been using for over a year.

[Btravelen]

Some 2005-2007 F-Super Duty, 2005-2006 E-Series and 2005 Excursion vehicles equipped with a 6.0L diesel engine may exhibit a hard start / long crank or no start condition due to low injection control pressure (ICP).
ACTION:

Use the Service Procedure to identify a fault with the high or low pressure oil system.
SERVICE PROCEDURE



A minimum of 3.5 MPa (500 psi or 0.8 volts) ICP is required before the injectors are enabled. No or low oil in the system, leakage at the injector upper D-rings, high pressure pump quick connect fitting, high pressure pump discharge tube, faulty injection pressure regulator (IPR), or high pressure pump could cause low ICP pressure.

1. Perform the revised Powertrain Controls / Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) lead diagnostics Section 4, Hard Start/No Start Diagnostic Procedure Tests 10e and 10f. These tests were revised in January 2006.
   NOTE:THE LOW PRESSURE OIL SYSTEM MUST BE WORKING PROPERLY IN ORDER FOR THE HIGH PRESSURE OIL SYSTEM TO BUILD ICP PRESSURE. THIS INCLUDES ADEQUATE PRESSURE AND GOOD QUALITY PROPERLY MAINTAINED OIL.
   
   NOTE:THIS TSB ONLY APPLIES TO REPLACEMENT OF THE HIGH PRESSURE BRANCH TUBE OR SNAP TO CONNECT FITTING IF FOUND DEFECTIVE WHILE PERFORMING PC/ED HARD START / NO START TESTS 10e AND 10f.
2. If the leak is isolated to the high pressure pump Snap to Connect (STC) quick connect fitting, replace the male and female fittings and install a STC bracket. All the necessary components are included in the STC kit. Follow the installation instructions included in the kit.
3. Torque the female quick connect fitting to 38 lb-ft (51 N-m) max.
   NOTE:DO NOT OVER TORQUE THE FEMALE QUICK CONNECT FITTING OR DAMAGE WILL OCCUR.
   
   NOTE:IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO REPLACE THE HIGH PRESSURE PUMP WHEN REPLACING THE QUICK CONNECT FITTINGS.
4. If a leak is identified in the branch tube, use the following procedure to replace the branch tube if the vehicle your working on is a F-Super Duty or Excursion. For E-Series, the engine needs to be removed to replace the branch tube. When replacing the branch tube, also install the STC bracket kit.

BRANCH TUBE REPLACEMENT FOR F-SUPER DUTY AND EXCURSION VEHICLES ONLY

1. Remove the transmission (See the appropriate model year Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 307-01.
   NOTE:LEAVE THE FLYWHEEL ON, IT WILL MAKE IT EASIER TO TURN THE ENGINE OVER TO TDC) THE TRANSMISSION FLUID DOES NOT NEED TO BE DRAINED.
2. Set engine at TDC both cylinder number 1 rocker arms should be loose (See rocker arm removal procedure in the appropriate online WSM, Section 303-01C).
3. Remove the right and left side high-pressure oil rails.
4. Remove and inspect both high-pressure standpipes for O-ring wear
5. Remove fuel injectors from cylinders 6, 7 and 8 (see WSM, Section 303-04C, use Ford Special Service Tool Number 303-1115)
6. Plug oil drain holes in cylinder head prior to removing the rocker arms. Remove intake and exhaust rocker arms from cylinders number 7 and number 8 then remove the push rods (See WSM, Section 303-01C, use Ford special service tool number 303-1170. The rocker arm plastic retaining clips may break upon removal. Make sure all the pieces are removed from the head.)
7. Rotate engine 1 full revolution (See WSM, Section 303-01C rocker arm removal procedure.
8. Remove exhaust rocker arm from cylinder number 6 and push rod (leave tool in place).
9. Remove the rear cover following WSM, Section 303-01C. Cut the sealant at the rear cover "T" joints for the bedplate gaskets and high-pressure pump cover gasket before fully removing.
   NOTE:USE A LONG PUTTY KNIFE OR RAZOR BLADE TO SEPARATE THE BED PLATE GASKETS TO PREVENT DAMAGE. DO NOT STRETCH THE BEDPLATE GASKETS OR THE BEDPLATE WILL HAVE TO BE REMOVED.
10. Loosen the two (2) 8 mm bolts that hold the discharge tube to the branch tube. (Use open end / box end wrench thin)
11. Insert a 10" long 1/4 locking extension with a T27 locking Torx bit through cylinder number 6 exhaust push rod hole. Use a magnet through the standpipe hole in the head to remove the bolt (the extension will be on a slight angle, have someone under the vehicle watch from the rear cover area to guide the socket on the bolt head of the branch tube hold down).
    CAUTION:IF THE TORX BIT IS DROPPED IT WILL BE NECESSARY TO REMOVE THE CYLINDER HEAD TO RETRIEVE IT.
12. Insert a 10" long 1/4" locking extension with a T27 locking Torx bit through cylinder number 7 exhaust push rod hole and loosen the hold down bolt. Use a magnet through the standpipe hole to remove bolt. (The extension will be on a slight angle, have someone under the vehicle watch from the rear cover area to guide the socket on the bolt head of the branch tube hold down).
    NOTE:THE BOLT HEAD IS NOT VISIBLE ON THIS SIDE.
    
    CAUTION:IF THE TORX BIT IS DROPPED IT WILL BE NECESSARY TO REMOVE THE CYLINDER HEAD TO RETRIEVE IT.
13. Remove the branch tube from the engine (Replace high-pressure branch tube).
14. Remove the high-pressure pump discharge tube from the high-pressure outlet fitting, use Ford Special Service Tool Number 303-755 to disconnect it. (Replace high-pressure pump discharge tube).
15. Remove the outlet fitting from the high-pressure pump (Replace high-pressure pump outlet fitting).

INSTALLATION

1. Pack the branch tube bolt holes with grease and install retaining bolts in the branch tube flush with the bottom.
2. If the high pressure (H/P) pump was removed for diagnostics it needs to be installed at this point. Torque the mounting bolts to 26 lb-ft (35 N-m).
3. Install a new high-pressure pump outlet fitting from the STC Bracket Kit and torque to 38 lb-ft (51 N-m).
4. Install the two (2) 8 mm bolts into the discharge tube. Snap the new high-pressure discharge tube into the high-pressure outlet fitting. Verify that the fitting is snapped in securely.
5. Install a new high-pressure branch tube into the block. Start the two (2) 8 mm bolts from the discharge tube into the branch tube. Have someone under vehicle guide and start the hold down bolts through cylinder 7 and cylinder 6 push rod holes. While tightening the branch tube hold down bolts maintain positive outward pressure on the branch tube. Torque the retaining bolts to 10 lb-ft (14 N-m).
6. Tighten the two (2) 8 mm discharge tube bolts. Torque to 11 lb-ft (15 N-m).
7. Clean the rear engine cover. Install a new gasket. Add Motorcraft Ultra Silicone Sealant to the bedplate and the H/P pump covers joints. Install the rear engine cover. Torque to 18 ft-lb (24 N-m).
8. Install a new rear main seal using Ford Special Service Tool Number 303-770
9. Install rear main seal dust cover
10. Install the flywheel. NEW FLYWHEEL BOLTS REQUIRED.
11. Install the starter.
12. Install push rod and rocker arm in cylinder number 6.
13. Rotate engine 1 full revolution
14. Install push rods and rocker arms in cylinders number 7 and number 8
15. Install stand pipes. (Replace if damaged)
16. Install fuel injectors.
17. Install high-pressure oil rails. (WSM, Section 303-04C)
18. Install the valve covers.
19. Install the fuel injector control model (FICM).
20. Install the air filter housing.
21. Install coolant overflow tank.
22. Install right side charge air cooler (CAC) tube. (Hot Side)
23. Install the transmission.
24. Change engine oil and filter.
25. Check all fluid levels.

WARRANTY STATUS:

Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
OPERATIONDESCRIPTIONTIME061706A2005-2007 Super Duty, 2005 Excursion 6.0L 4X2/4X4 All Transmissions: Perform PC/ED Lead Diagnosis, Install STC Bracket And/Or Replace The Snap To Connect (STC) Fittings, Road Test To Verify Repair: (This Labor Operation Is All Inclusive And May Not Be Claimed With Other Labor Operations) 8.0 Hrs.061706B2005-2006 Econoline 6.0L: Perform PC/ED Lead Diagnosis, Install STC Bracket, And/Or Replace The Snap To Connect (STC) Fittings, Road Test To Verify Repair: (This Labor Operation Is All Inclusive And May Not Be Claimed With Other Labor Operations) 10.6 Hrs.061706C2005-2007 Super Duty 6.0L 4X2 Manual Transmission: Perform PC/ED Lead Diagnosis, Replace The Branch Tube, Install STC Bracket And/Or Replace The Snap To Connect (STC) Fittings, Road Test To Verify Repair: (This Labor Operation Is All Inclusive And May Not Be Claimed With Other Labor Operations) 14.4 Hrs.061706D2005-2007 Super Duty 6.0L 4X4 Manual Transmission: Perform PC/ED Lead Diagnosis, Replace The Branch Tube, Install STC Bracket And/Or Replace The Snap To Connect (STC) Fittings, Road Test To Verify Repair: (This Labor Operation Is All Inclusive And May Not Be Claimed With Other Labor Operations) 15.9 Hrs.061706E2005-2007 Super Duty, 2005 Excursion 6.0L 4X2 Automatic Transmission: Perform PC/ED Lead Diagnosis, Replace The Branch Tube, Install STC Bracket And/Or Replace The Snap To Connect (STC) Fittings, Road Test To Verify Repair: (This Labor Operation Is All Inclusive And May Not Be Claimed With Other Labor Operations) 15.4 Hrs.061706F2005-2007 Super Duty, 2005 Excursion 6.0L 4X4 Automatic Transmission: Perform PC/ED Lead Diagnosis, Replace The Branch Tube Install STC Bracket And/Or Replace The Snap To Connect (STC) Fittings, Road Test To Verify Repair: (This Labor Operation Is All Inclusive And May Not Be Claimed With Other Labor Operations) 16.4 Hrs.061706G2005-2006 Econoline 6.0L: Perform PC/ED Lead Diagnosis, Remove Engine To Replace The Branch Tube, Install STC Bracket And/Or Replace The Snap To Connect (STC) Fittings, Road Test To Verify Repair: (This Labor Operation Is All Inclusive And May Not Be Claimed With Other Labor Operations) 23.8 Hrs.

[LJOHNS]

I got the same run around last week. My 05' takes a good 4 to 5 seonds to fire. The dealer told me that the oil filter cap was cracked and was letting air in. I found that the valve cover or head gaskets are leaking but the filter cap was fine. I replaced the cap anyway and it is still hard to start. Mine only does it when cold. I will have to go have another talk with the dealer.

[NeutronMan]

Suppose a new thread is not needed so I am joining the group here on the long start issue. It seems that my problem is getting worse now, and I can not even rely on the truck to start after I have run it.

Does this sound familiar to anyone?
The truck starts up in the morning no problem, no power loss to speak of, but after its up to temp and I turn it off to run in the store or what not, the truck will crank longer than normal and sometimes will not start at all. If I let the truck sit for an hour or so, it will fire up again.

I suppose this fix is not something I want to get into myself...

Experience and price to repair would be appreciated