Head gaskets blown for the 2nd time!!!!!!!

[GIJOE0916]

I had my headgaskets replaced with Black Onix aftermarket ones, also replaced the OEM studs with the ARPs, water pump, and oil pump were also replaced with new ones. The EGR valve cooler was also bypassed. The truck ran perfectly for 5 weeks and after driving to North Carolina from Texas the truck is overheating. The back pressure pushed into the antifreeze bottle emptys the system constantly. All the same signs of the original problem (blown headgaskets) Where do I go from here?

[chuckster57]

So sorry to hear about your bad luck. Many members have posted the failure of the Black Onyx gaskets. Did you get any kind of warranty on the work? If so I would be back there with the swiftness.

ARP's and OEM head gaskets seem like they are the best combo. Also do you know if the heads were checked for flatness on the first go around?

[bismic]

Have the job redone and use OEM head gaskets.

I know a great shop in N. Carolina - Winston Salem area

[Derkperk]

If the heads were warped and not decked you were asking for a repeat. must check the heads no matter what you are using for gaskets.

[GIJOE0916]

The job is under warranty, but the shop is in San Antonio and I am in North Carolina. I honestly do not know if the heads were checked for flatness. I was at the shop the entire time of the operation, but I do not know how that flatness is check. All I know is that the mechanics that worked on it have the best reputation, and I am shock that this is going on. I paid a pretty penny for this, and this should not be happenning. I may have to ship the truck back to San Antonio!

[chuckster57]

To check heads for flatness involves the use of something called a machinist straight edge. Mine is 32" long, about 4" wide and 1/4" thick. One edge is machined and garunteed flat within .0001 end to end. You lay that edge across the head in 5 different positions and use a set of feeler gauges trying to detect any gap. This straight edge isn't cheap.

[Bet22857]

Did you have the EGR cooler replaced at the same time as the gaskets?

Being fully certified Ford Diesel tech, i know this diagnosis and proceedure all too well!!

Ford TSB 09-08-03 actually calls to check the coolant cap and make sure it holds a minimum of 13 psi. If it's good, check for coolant leaks. If good, replace EGR and oil coolers. If still shows signs then replace head gaskets.

Most shops see pressure building up, stick a compression gas tester in the bottle and say head gaskets, when it is simply just the EGR cooler. So they miss the fix by thousands of dollars!!

If a customer brings me a "head job" that THEY diagnosed, I ALWAYS replace the EGR cooler, or I won't touch the job. Also, Ford states that if head gaskets are to be replaced, the EGR cooler MUST be replaced as well (unless previously done under pro secures of TSB 09-08-03).

[bismic]

He stated that the EGR cooler was bypassed, but no doubt it is hard to distinguish between EGR coolers and head gaskets - hopefully the EGR cooler bypass was done correctly (removed or welded closed on both ends).

Also, where does Ford say replace the EGR cooler without testing it? The TSB says to presure test it. Is this a new position Ford is taking?

EGR Cooler Leak Test Off Vehicle:
a. Remove the EGR cooler from the engine
following Workshop Manual (WSM), Section
303-08.
b. Install cooler block-off tools and pressurize
the EGR cooler to 30 psi (207 kPa). Fasten
the inlet and outlet port block-off plates
using standard bolts, nuts and washers.
(Figure 2)
c. Submerge the EGR cooler horizontally in
water, with the coolant ports pointing
upward. Manipulate the cooler under water
to purge all trapped air from the internal
coolant passages. (Figure 3)
d. Inspect for continuous bubbles escaping
from the coolant ports.
(1) If continuous bubbles identify a leak,
replace the EGR cooler and service
the oil cooler with an Oil Cooler Kit.
Refer to the WSM, Sections 303-01C
and 303-08 for additional information
and go to Step 7.
(2) If bubbles do not identify a leak, an
external leak was missed in Step 1.
Install the original EGR cooler and exit
this procedure. This procedure should
not be performed until all external
cooling system leaks have been
repaired.

[Bet22857]

My appologies, and you are correct bismic. I totally left out the testing procedure for the EGR cooler!! And also misread that he had the cooler bypassed.

But bypassing the EGR cooler puts a lot of stress on the oil cooler. But if there is no oil in the coolant system, the oil cooler is okay.

Was it a dealership or an independent shop that did the original gaskets? Did they do them in-cab (whereas proper torque proceedure is sometime hard to obtain), pull the motor out the front, or remove the cab for access?? Sometime the procedure followed to gain access to do the work is just as important as the actual work done.

[OT]

GIJoe...obviously call shop who did work w/guarantee etc. & get some feedback. Pvt. shop (not chain) will probably insist u bring it back to them, but?

btw...feedback/info. here is valuable. Have used it in past when talking to tec., but chose my words carefully & didn't p... him off. Good luck!

[CAMPINGTOM]

Originally Posted by Bet22857

But bypassing the EGR cooler puts a lot of stress on the oil cooler. But if there is no oil in the coolant system, the oil cooler is okay.

Interesting. Can you explain this further?

[Bet22857]

As the EGR cooler is larger than the tube commonly included in delete kits, it acts as a sort of heat sink to help wick heat way from the coolant....much like the radiator does. Deleting the cooler takes this heat sink away and inhibits the coolant systems ability to cool. This puts more stress on the oil cooler to cool, whereas the EGR cooler was helping.

[dcovaleski]

Originally Posted by Bet22857

As the EGR cooler is larger than the tube commonly included in delete kits, it acts as a sort of heat sink to help wick heat way from the coolant....much like the radiator does. Deleting the cooler takes this heat sink away and inhibits the coolant systems ability to cool.

The egr cooler is and is not something like a radiator. The radiators job is to transfer heat from the coolant to the outside air...the egr cooler is to transfer heat from the exhaust to the coolant. By removing the egr cooler, you are removing the heat absorbed by the coolant from the exhaust heat, and in the end, lessining the stress on the coolant. After removing the egr cooler, the coolant would leave the oil cooler, travel through a less restrictive path(the straight tube) and end back in the cooling system.

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[Derkperk]

Right on. Scary thought this certified diesel tech would be working in your truck...

Originally Posted by dcovaleski

The egr cooler is and is not something like a radiator. The radiators job is to transfer heat from the coolant to the outside air...the egr cooler is to transfer heat from the exhaust to the coolant. By removing the egr cooler, you are removing the heat absorbed by the coolant from the exhaust heat, and in the end, lessining the stress on the coolant. After removing the egr cooler, the coolant would leave the oil cooler, travel through a less restrictive path(the straight tube) and end back in the cooling system.

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[Bet22857]

I understand what your saying, and people think I'm crazy, but I see it everyday. EGR deletes and blown oil coolers hand-in-hand. Trucks without the deletes rarely ever have blown oil coolers.

Call me crazy, but on a daily basis, what I see is what I see.