6.0L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.
I have a 2004 (late 03 build) 6.0l 100k miles. the only thing Ive done was put a 4'' dp and stright pipe on it. I use only motorcraft parts and fluids. I am new to diesel owner ship this is the first one I have owned. I did have to replace the water pump pulley and the belt.
I live in the california high desert and the weather gets hot as hell (115 degree) and into the 20's in the bad winter. right now our lows are in the mid 30's-40's. But the problem that I am having now and even when it was summer was that I will go out in the morning to start the truck and if Ive parked facing up-hill or level i have to let the truck crank and it will usually fire first shot, but then dies immideatly and the i crank it 3 more time each time for about 10 seconds befor it will fire and run. Now if I park facing down hill It will usually fire and run first shot. now once it does fire and run it takes a few seconds befor my "stock" oil pressure guage reads anything.
I have been told that my hpop reservior is leaking back into the crank case when i let the truck sit over night. but the problem i am having is that I have read people saying they have the same issues, but I cannot find anything on what to replace or where to start. Any info that I can receive with pics or anything, it would be greatly appreciated. thanks all.
If it hits and then dies then cross off HP oil troubles, at least as first worries.
Put a fuel pressure gauge on it. You likely have fuel delivery troubles.
Fuel pump or if it only does low fuel level then the rubber upside down plastic bell shaped pickup tube extension has begun to disintegrate.
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I have to consider this an urban myth. I have seen this theory posted all over the net.
I have yet to see any official documentation even discussing the possibility.
My problem with the theory is if the seal leaks enough under gravity conditions. There is no way the pump under pressure would be able to build enough pressure for the truck to start up period no matter which way it is faceing.
I would have to suspect fuel issues from the tank, damage to the pick up or a foreign object [rag] or something of the sort floating in the tank to where tilting the tank in the ight direction would cause it to block off the pickup tube.
I have found rags, plastic bags even the celophane wrapper of a pack of cigaretts in fuel tanks on a number of occasions over the years.
the only doubt i have with the fuel delivery issues is that once the truck starts and runs it will run fine all day. no matter how long i run it or how many times i shut it off and start it. the only time my issue starts is after it has sat for 8 hours or longer. Like this morning for instance I went out to take the kids to school, put the key in and cycled the truck 5 times untill the batteries started loosing the power needed to supply the cranking.... so its on a charger now befor the died compleatly.
This is likely an HPO leak issue. I do not believe it is the reservoir draining, because that reservoir does not drain, even when you drain the oil. There will still be like nearly a quart in there.
Early trucks with the aluminum bodied HPOP are known for pump problems. That could be the issue, but since it runs fine after it's warm I have to suspect a seal first. It could be injector to oil rail o-rings, or stand pipe d-ring seals. The best course would be to have the system air tested.
Another possibility is a bad IPR, but you really need to get it to a shop that can diagnose it. They will be able to read pressure at the IPR to help diagnose a leak or bad IPR. If the IPR seems fine they will need to command the ICP closed to air test the system.
Another thing to check would be FICM voltage. If that checks then you're about 85% certain the FICM is good, but it's just a quick and simple diagnostic; it isn't 100% definitive. The FICM can cause issues cold that go away once it is warm. You can test that by heating up the FICM with a small heater prior to starting the truck cold and see if the issue is resolved. Sometimes they have good voltage, which means the coils are good, but they can still have a bad spot on the board that causes all manner of hard to diagnose grief.
'02 WRX - Outback rear disc swap, EBC green pads, pillar vane front rotors, TXS UP/TBE/TMIC, Perrin LW crank pulley, PPG billet steel shift forks, ACT Streetlite flywheel & clutch, K&N filter, STi Group N motor/trans mounts, TiC/Kartboy rear diff mounts/subframe lock bolts/outrigger stiffeners, Kartboy SS & all shifter bushings, custom PDX tune for Cobb AP - went 14.1 on a terrible 60ft before most of these mods; shooting for 13.50s
Several techs from other forums have seen this happen and have tracked it down to an issue with the 2003 HPOPs. They say it is not common, but they see a lot of trucks. I personally believe they are competent and know what they are talking about.
Nowhere else have I seen explanations account for "starting properly with the nose down and NOT starting with the nose up".
There is no plausible fuel delivery scenario that would behave specifically this way.
Anyway, that is why I qualified the post by saying "if this is truly what is happening". If you want to talk directly to a Tech that experienced this, PM me (since the Tech is on another forum).
I have a 2004 (late 03 build) 6.0l 100k miles. the only thing Ive done was put a 4'' dp and stright pipe on it. I use only motorcraft parts and fluids. I am new to diesel owner ship this is the first one I have owned. I did have to replace the water pump pulley and the belt.
I live in the california high desert and the weather gets hot as hell (115 degree) and into the 20's in the bad winter. right now our lows are in the mid 30's-40's. But the problem that I am having now and even when it was summer was that I will go out in the morning to start the truck and if Ive parked facing up-hill or level i have to let the truck crank and it will usually fire first shot, but then dies immideatly and the i crank it 3 more time each time for about 10 seconds befor it will fire and run. Now if I park facing down hill It will usually fire and run first shot. now once it does fire and run it takes a few seconds befor my "stock" oil pressure guage reads anything.
I have been told that my hpop reservior is leaking back into the crank case when i let the truck sit over night. but the problem i am having is that I have read people saying they have the same issues, but I cannot find anything on what to replace or where to start. Any info that I can receive with pics or anything, it would be greatly appreciated. thanks all.
First off, you are going to need a scan tool to monitor pids when this is occuring to pinpoint if you have a ficm issue, high pressure oil issue, sensor issue, or completely different issue. Start by checking for codes to narrow down to a system or component. The '03's were good for loosing a plug in the low pressure side of the high pressure oil pump (feed side of pump) that is nothing more than a ball bearing. If this plug comes out, it will drain the oil reservoir, but typically when this occurs, the low pressure oil pump will not be able to overcome this leak when the engine is hot, and will cause a stalling/no start. Another common issue is biased icp sensor-monitor icp voltage koeo, if it is not between .18-.24 volts, it's no good. Replace it along with the connector, as the sensor is prone to leaking and damaged the connector/wiring. Also verify FICM voltage.
Several techs from other forums have seen this happen and have tracked it down to an issue with the 2003 HPOPs. They say it is not common, but they see a lot of trucks. I personally believe they are competent and know what they are talking about.
Nowhere else have I seen explanations account for "starting properly with the nose down and NOT starting with the nose up".
There is no plausible fuel delivery scenario that would behave specifically this way.
Anyway, that is why I qualified the post by saying "if this is truly what is happening". If you want to talk directly to a Tech that experienced this, PM me (since the Tech is on another forum).
Follow this advise have this issue and believe after months of research Mark is on the right track
First off, you are going to need a scan tool to monitor pids when this is occuring to pinpoint if you have a ficm issue, high pressure oil issue, sensor issue, or completely different issue. Start by checking for codes to narrow down to a system or component. The '03's were good for loosing a plug in the low pressure side of the high pressure oil pump (feed side of pump) that is nothing more than a ball bearing. If this plug comes out, it will drain the oil reservoir, but typically when this occurs, the low pressure oil pump will not be able to overcome this leak when the engine is hot, and will cause a stalling/no start. Another common issue is biased icp sensor-monitor icp voltage koeo, if it is not between .18-.24 volts, it's no good. Replace it along with the connector, as the sensor is prone to leaking and damaged the connector/wiring. Also verify FICM voltage.
That is a good point. If the HPOP is draining the reservoir faster than the LPOP can keep it full you could get an issue like this. Essentially you are loosing prime. The HPOP is a PITA to get primed again. If you change it or change the STC fitting, even filling the reservoir with oil it still takes at least a minute of cranking before you get pressure and the engine will fire. Even then it may take a day or so to get all the air worked out of the system, all the while it can have some intermittent goofy running issues.
All in all if Mark is saying that's the issue I would have to agree. He's one of the top guys on this forum, and doesn't put stuff out there unless he's sure it will help.
'02 WRX - Outback rear disc swap, EBC green pads, pillar vane front rotors, TXS UP/TBE/TMIC, Perrin LW crank pulley, PPG billet steel shift forks, ACT Streetlite flywheel & clutch, K&N filter, STi Group N motor/trans mounts, TiC/Kartboy rear diff mounts/subframe lock bolts/outrigger stiffeners, Kartboy SS & all shifter bushings, custom PDX tune for Cobb AP - went 14.1 on a terrible 60ft before most of these mods; shooting for 13.50s
i started another thread but thought this might be appropriate here as well
I have a 2006 250 Harley truck with a 6.0 last year pulled cab did studs egr delete new cooler etc. truck runs awesome. No problems since. Thursday night we backed in driveway to unload and left truck sit two hours later no start. We were late took other truck thinking maybe hpop issues. friday morning still no start.so this morning I started reading through forums and while cranking noticed no gauge movement on oil pressure gauge so was thinking lpop. For whatever reason I put truck in neutral rolled it to flat spot 15 seconds of cranking it sputtered once then started right up. The driveway isn't all that steep front tires were about 15 inches lower than back. Not being completely sure how hpop works is it possible that this angle would drain reservoir and cause this problem? Thanks in advance for the ideas..
sounds similar to what your going thru but reversed my truck started when front was elevated.
HPOP reservoir is at front of engine, HPOP is at rear of engine. Not hard to see how a nose down position could cause a problem. This of course means there would have to be a leak to allow air in and oil out.
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I was hoping that the OP or others would post back on this after talking to the Ford Tech that pretty much identified this.
The description below was his assessment regarding the symptoms:
Quite rare issue:
You have either
1. a crack in the block under the oil cooler (never seen or heard of it happening)
2. a failed o-ring at the pump side feed circuit (o-ring from pump to block) or
3. a failed high pressure pump allowing fluid to leak past it while its not running.
To diagnose the above is easy. Remove the oil cooler and the HPOP cover. From there you will clean the HPOP reservoir out with a lint free rag and fill the sump with diesel fuel (flows much better then oil) and see if you can find the leak. If not take a time measurement of how fast it will drain, and then remove the pump and plug the pump feed port with a rubber plug. Once the port is plugged, refill the sump and see if it still leaks out. If the leak is gone, then you have a failed pump. Also, to test the o-ring, is visual test. If its ripped, then it is bad, if its undamaged, then it is good. My money goes to the failed HPOP.
Nose down no start you'd have to be loosing prime. The feed hole in the reservoir is to the rear of the truck. If the HPOP was allowing the oil to drain from the reservoir you'd get this issue parked nose up.
Now if the leak is causing a loss of prime, but not draining the reservoir then you'd expect the exact opposite. Parked nose up you'd effectively be keeping it primed with gravity.
Loss of prime would cause a lot of cranking, even with oil in the reservoir. My bet is that's your problem. It's bad o-ring or a bad pump. On the OP's 2004 my money is on a bad pump.
'02 WRX - Outback rear disc swap, EBC green pads, pillar vane front rotors, TXS UP/TBE/TMIC, Perrin LW crank pulley, PPG billet steel shift forks, ACT Streetlite flywheel & clutch, K&N filter, STi Group N motor/trans mounts, TiC/Kartboy rear diff mounts/subframe lock bolts/outrigger stiffeners, Kartboy SS & all shifter bushings, custom PDX tune for Cobb AP - went 14.1 on a terrible 60ft before most of these mods; shooting for 13.50s
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