Info on oil cooler tear down? - Page 5 - Diesel Forum

**mlwest** · 03-09-2010, 01:22 AM

Ghostbuster - I didn't even know Ford had a recommended test for post repair.

However I did run my own "stress test" using my 6,000 lb trailer up some of the local grades in my area. What I'm really looking forward to is some of our wonderful

100+ degree days with my trailer behind me and some stop and go traffic up the same grades. I plan on recording that data too and I'll post it here.

I posted a graph of a close up look at the temps from my run on a 55-60 degree day/trailer in tow.

It was interesting to see the change in temps between the coolant and oil. It confirmed that oil gives up heat more slowly than water/coolant. This graph does include some WOT operation.

I suspect the OEM stuff works well (it seemed to have worked well for me for quite a while and unfortunately I don't have data from my trucks early years to use as a baseline) until the dreaded casting sand begins plugging up the intricate coolant paths. I would have likely gone back to OEM gear if I could have installed my new coolant filter in between the OEM oil cooler and the block. Unfortunately for my wallet a new OEM oil cooler would still act as the first coolant filter and now that I've seen what the filter collects I'm stunned that the oil cooler lasted as long as it did.

skibud85 · 03-11-2010, 06:47 PM

Hi. My truck has all the extra filters, scheduled fluid changes, and all the mods to get extended life and better fuel economy. With that said I have a question. I have the EDGE INSIGHT Monitor installed and have noticed over time the difference between Engine Oil Temp and Engine Coolant Temp have been getting further apart. Once warmed up and in moderate outside temperatures, the temps used to be around 5-10* apart, now they seem to run at least 10-14* apart. Just had my EGR Valve out, and it was like new, flushed the cooling system and installed all new hoses,pump, and thermostat. My truck has 80K, 50/50 Highway and around town, and I am easy on the throttle(most of the time

. My question is: Is this an initial indication of the gradual clogging and failure of the EGR/ Oil Cooler??

**teamroper60** · 03-11-2010, 08:57 PM

It is an indication that your oil cooler is plugging up. At this point, I doubt it has affected your EGR cooler.

Ford will not replace it since it is still within specs but I would be saving a few pennies for the repair when it comes time, which, given your year model will likely occur after the warranty period is up.

**mlwest** · 03-12-2010, 02:08 AM

IMHO it's only a matter of time before most if not all of the 6.0L motors out there will plug up their oil coolers. You'll read how some have many thousands of miles on their trucks and have no apparent problems but very few will actually know what their oil vs coolant temps are - so they really don't have the foggiest idea that their motors have been living on the edge for who knows how long.

At least you've caught the trend before it makes itself known by blowing through an EGR cooler or something even more expensive.

Now you need to decide how you want to fix the problem - replace with OEM parts, add a coolant filter (if you don't already have one) and hope for the best - or use the bulletproofdiesel mod and skip the whole problem.

The OEM route might cost less initially but if you find you have to do it a second time you'll have saved nothing and likely spent more.

I plan on keeping my truck for a long time so I opted for the design change.

willingtonpaul · 03-12-2010, 07:03 AM

skibud85, i put my insight on when i bought my truck and in the first 1500 or so miles i saw the same type of spread, 5-maybe 10 degrees. then i had the coolant system flushed, and i went to the 10-14 degree range empty, and when i hooked up my trailer, i went over 15.

problem is i never towed before the flush and monitored temps, and the weather got a good 20-30 degrees warmer in new england. so i am not sure if it was the flush that made it worse or just the weather or towing or both.

the dealership did the coolant flush (i wanted them to do it, so that if i needed warranty work, there was no questions) and would have loved to see what came out of the bottom of the radiator. but they would of course not let me watch.

ttmech · 03-12-2010, 09:21 AM

As far as the plugged oil cooler, how is it getting plugged?

**wldwilliam** · 03-12-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttmech

As far as the plugged oil cooler, how is it getting plugged?

The passages in the oil cooler become blocked by casting sand left in the coolant flow path from the engine block manufacturing (casting) process. They just can't get it all out and the passages in the oil cooler are extremely tight.

The oil cooler is what needs to be replaced. The EGR cooler may or may not be affected by the blocked oil cooler but Ford recommends replacing one at the same time the other is replaced.

**mlwest** · 03-14-2010, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttmech

As far as the plugged oil cooler, how is it getting plugged?

A little more information on the debris in all of our blocks - not only is casting sand a problem, it must be remembered that even if Ford/International had gone to much greater lengths to try and remove as much as possible during manufacturing it would still generate new particles simply due to normal operation. As our diesel motors burn fuel they cause the whole block to vibrate thereby causing more sand (silica) and iron particles to break loose during the entire life of the motor.

Also keep in mind that the oil cooler is first in line to see coolant as the coolant (attempts) to travel through the oil cooler to the EGR cooler - so any change (reduction) in coolant flow will ALWAYS affect the poor EGR cooler that is seeing hot exhaust gasses that it's supposed to cool with less than optimum coolant flow - not a good thing.

The information I've heard is that Ford doesn't just recommend that the oil cooler be replaced if the EGR cooler is replaced but demands it or they won't pay for the repair. That may or may not be true, however, I sure can't see why anyone would not want to, at least temporarily, solve the coolant flow issue while they have the parts off to get at the EGR cooler.

I find it very interesting that someone has data showing that a flush, using the Ford coolant flush, appears to have caused more blockage.

**wldwilliam** · 03-14-2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlwest

The information I've heard is that Ford doesn't just recommend that the oil cooler be replaced if the EGR cooler is replaced but demands it or they won't pay for the repair. That may or may not be true,...

the service advisor at the dealer I go to told me that they are changing both coolers any time one of them has failed but ford_doctor corrected my ect/eot thread stating that the egr cooler may not be replaced just because the oil cooler failed as long as it tests okay. If the egr cooler failed, both get replaced. I am inclined to believe ford-doctor over my service advisor on that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlwest

...however, I sure can't see why anyone would not want to, at least temporarily, solve the coolant flow issue while they have the parts off to get at the EGR cooler.

totally!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlwest

I find it very interesting that someone has data showing that a flush, using the Ford coolant flush, appears to have caused more blockage.

me too - would it make sense that the flush loosened more debris that clogged the cooler? I read the TSB that was posted earlier and it looks like Ford flushes the cooling system after the cooler repair. Wouldn't that just send whatever debris the flush loosens right into the newly serviced oil cooler and start the process all over again? That confuses me...

willingtonpaul · 03-14-2010, 12:59 PM

mlwest, my "data" that things got worse after the coolant flush at the dealer is really just a WAG. take a look at my post, i really cannot isolate the flush as the culprit. that being said, it does seem to make sense that the flush could loosen some stuff up and further plug up the oil cooler.

and wldwilliam, yes, the syntax of the VC-9 flush is to do it at the end of the changeover. i questioned my tech on that as well, as it seems that it makes no sense to push the VC-9 flush through the nice new oil cooler core. logically, it makes sense to do it first. but, he said he has to follow the TSB, and that is how he is going to do it. so that was that. hopefully the brain trust at ford knows that this is best. maybe ford_doctor knows more on this one and may care to comment.