6.0L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.
Just got the truck back from Ford and it is sluggish off the get go.
Had a pile of work done on the truck over the past few weeks (5 new injectors, 4 wheel drive, etc) and just picked it up a couple of hours ago. When I went to get it I asked the service manager if they had re-flashed anything and I got a kind of sideways look and an answer of "uh, if it's not on the repair sheet then it wasn't re-flashed". I said thank you and headed out. Now it might be that I haven't driven it in a few weeks but it used to be a LOT quicker off the line and had a lot more "seat-of-the-pants" power to it.
Is lower hp and longer spool up time on the turbo indicative of a re-flash to a newer version?
Thanks in advance
__________________
05 F350, 6.0, K&N intake, Magna Flow 4", Edge Insight CTS, Sinister bypass coolant/oil filter system, more to come!
In my experience a Ford dealer tech will flash to the latest spec on the PCM and the FICM before doing any diagnostics. That happened three times to me. I am running the latest flashes on my truck, it is sluggish off the line particularly when cold (turbo vanes are fully closed during warmup) but it starts in below zero weather like a champ, smooths out in 3 seconds and just sits there idling. I drive like a little old lady anyway, so colds starts trump drag-race starts every day...
Had a pile of work done on the truck over the past few weeks (5 new injectors, 4 wheel drive, etc) and just picked it up a couple of hours ago. When I went to get it I asked the service manager if they had re-flashed anything and I got a kind of sideways look and an answer of "uh, if it's not on the repair sheet then it wasn't re-flashed". I said thank you and headed out. Now it might be that I haven't driven it in a few weeks but it used to be a LOT quicker off the line and had a lot more "seat-of-the-pants" power to it.
Is lower hp and longer spool up time on the turbo indicative of a re-flash to a newer version?
I find it interesting that you feel your truck ran better when it had five bad injectors. Also, your intake and exhaust modifications CAN affect EGR and turbocharger operation therefore a stock calibration in combination with these mods may cause driveability issues. Some calibrations could react differently and if your calibration was updated this might be the explanation. In my experience, a 2005 6.0L running a current calibration should be quite snappy - since we don't know what the technician actually did you could try disconnecting the batteries to clear the Keep Alive Memory then warm the truck up to operating temperature and take it out and perform several wide open throttle accelerations from a standing stop and several more on the highway ensuring the trans downshifts in the process. Also, if your engine had been running poorly for any amount of time your catalytic converter could be restricted. A 20 minute run down the highway with the transmission a lower gear to raise the RPM's at a steady cruise will elevate your exhaust temperatures to help burn off any coking that might be causing a restriction. Sometimes I have to do this with customers vehicles after an injector or FICM repair. The difference is very noticeable when this is the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC5C
In my experience a Ford dealer tech will flash to the latest spec on the PCM and the FICM before doing any diagnostics. That happened three times to me. I am running the latest flashes on my truck, it is sluggish off the line particularly when cold (turbo vanes are fully closed during warmup) but it starts in below zero weather like a champ, smooths out in 3 seconds and just sits there idling. I drive like a little old lady anyway, so colds starts trump drag-race starts every day...
Brian
Calibration updates are sometimes required during the diagnostic process depending on the symptoms. As a rule, not all technicians go around re-flashing modules all willy-nilly for no good reason. But, it is well known that calibration changes can and will sometimes cause noticeable differences in performance however in my experience the calibration changes are usually well worth some of the detectable "side effects" as they correct many worse concerns, particularly in older trucks running the factory installed calibrations. Over the years the engineers at Ford have dialed these trucks in pretty well in my opinion. As long as everything else is operating as designed these trucks should perform well with the latest calibrations.
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Last edited by ford_doctor; 01-06-2013 at 09:44 AM.
Thanks, Ford Doctor... The back story is that I bought my truck last march from my local Ford dealer, and two weeks later while on a trip starting losing injectors - one at a time, each one replaced by the nearest dealer. After the third one I gave up and the selling dealer arranged to have it transported around 800 miles back home. In the mean time my sister, who is a senior product engineer at Dearborn, hooked me up with her counterpart who is the engineer responsible for support of the 6.0. He correctly diagnosed the root problem (low fuel pressure) and helped me work with the selling dealer to get it fixed. They picked up the tab for the two injectors replaced by other dealers, the transport home, 8 new injectors, new HFCM and of course the actual problem - the "blue spring". In the course of this I learned a lot about the latest flashes, what the upgrades were, and so on, in the course of several conversations with the very helpful Ford engineer...
For what it's worth, the spring in the fuel pressure regulator is not the weak link. The weak link is the consumer who fails to maintain the vehicle properly and make repairs in a timely manner. The updated blue spring elevates fuel pressure to the upper end of the specification range which does have performance benefits however when it comes to fuel quality and clogged filters the spring has little affect on saving the injectors. If you could only see some of the trucks that roll into my shop... the neglect, the abuse, rotted fuel tanks, missing fuel filler neck caps and so on...
__________________ . Ford Master Diesel Technician Diesel Technician Society Diesel Mentor Directory
Your opinion seems to differ from the Ford engineer, then. He went right to fuel pressure as the problem. In any case, this truck had been dealer maintained from new by the book, had 50K miles on it, and had 40 psi fuel pressure with the bypass pressure tester. Running great since then, thankfully! I can sure believe the potential problems with lack of maintenance, though.
Ford Doctor,
The injectors that were replaced refused to open when cold. Once warmed up they worked just fine. I drove the truck a few hundred miles today and it definitely has less get up and go.
From a dead stop it used to be launch pretty good. A boosted launch would smoke the hell out of the tires and then really press me into the seat once it caught traction.
Passing used to be a breeze now it takes quite a bit longer to get spooled up and around someone.
My fuel economy also suffered a 2mpg hit from a similar trip last month, similar conditions although a tad more wind this time around.
The freaking great news is this. I started it dead cold this morning in 4 degree weather and it burped one little tiny cloud of black smoke (like as big as a base ball cap) and that was it! No other smoke at all!!!! /me doing a happy dance.
I also noticed something else. Used to the block heater only got the truck to about 20 degrees above whatever it was outside so when it was 10 below the truck was a block of ice plugged in or not. The first morning after I picked it up (we were still at the apartment) I went out and started it and the reading on the CTS for EOT was 69 degrees. Fully 54degrees above what it was outside!
The Service Tech did let me know that there were a few things that had to be plugged back in that were removed/moved for some reason or other.
All in all I'll keep the great starts and no smoke. If I want some more get up and go I'll send the FICM to Ed for an Atlas 40 update.
Heavyassault,
Is checking the PCM Strategy code relatively easy? I'll look into it tomorrow.
Thanks folks!!!
__________________
05 F350, 6.0, K&N intake, Magna Flow 4", Edge Insight CTS, Sinister bypass coolant/oil filter system, more to come!
Your opinion seems to differ from the Ford engineer, then. He went right to fuel pressure as the problem. In any case, this truck had been dealer maintained from new by the book, had 50K miles on it, and had 40 psi fuel pressure with the bypass pressure tester. Running great since then, thankfully! I can sure believe the potential problems with lack of maintenance, though.
Brian
Hey Brian!
I'm glad to hear that your truck has been treating you well! I just wanted to touch base and make sure that things are continuing in the right direction. Give me a heads up if you ever need my assistance.
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