Lack of towing power - Diesel Forum

kraftchick · 08-19-2009, 03:02 PM

New diesel owner here. In October of '08, I bought an '05 F250 Super Duty with the intent of using it to pull a camper. We bought the new camper 3 months ago and I've been feeling like while towing it, I'm underpowered....this was confirmed two weekends ago while towing into the mountains of NC in and through Asheville. Others who have ridden with me felt that I should have more towing power than what I do. Running 45 -50 mph. on a flat highway and putting the pedal on the floor is way less than impressive....the truck will eventually speed up...but very slowly. Turbo gauge shows 20 -30 psi and I can hear/feel it kicking in...but acceleration is close to non-existent. Trailer ways only 7500 lbs. fully loaded. While towing up into the mountains on a 3 mile 6% grade....I dropped down to maxing out at 38 mph. with the pedal floored. I got a buddy of mine's '06 F350 dually and towed my camper....pulled it like I was towing an empty 12 ft. utility trailer...could hardly tell it was there. Running 50 mph, then giving it about 3/4 throttle, it dropped down a gear and jumped all over 70mph. Tested his out on som nice sized hilly country roads...could easily accelerate uphill with plenty of throttle left. Mine on the same hills struggled to keep 50mph with the pedal on the floor. I know there's leaf spring, and rear end gear differences...mine has the 3.73 rear-end, his dually has the 4.10. Both are the 6.0 PSD. I know the rear-end gearing will make a bit of a difference in pulling torque...but this difference was extreme. His F350 is completely stock, nothing aftermarket or anything done to it....so is mine (as far as I know). The dash gauges on mine don't show any accessive temperature changes while towing...everything appears normal. One difference I do notice is the auxilary fan on mine runs quite a bit while towing....when towing with his F350 on the same 3-4 mile run that I took the trailer with on mine...auxilary fans never kicked in....and I was running his quite a bit harder. I was amazed at the difference. Without having any other diesel experience I was questioning if this is just what it is and I was expecting too much out of a stock configuration. Now after testing with his pulling the same trailer down the same roads, and knowing to expect a bit of torque differences....I feel like something is DEFINITELY wrong with my truck. Way underpowered...and power is the reason I bought it. Surely I'm not working my F250 with a 7500 lb. camper ????? When I say loss or lack of power, I'm not stating that I have the power then lose it when climbing....there was a severe difference at all levels...taking off, flat roads, highway speeds, and climbing. Where do I start looking? Since I've had the truck, and not having any prior experience with diesel, I just assumed everything was okay...but now I'm even beginning to think I'm underpowered even without the trailer. Help?

BRUMFIJW · 08-19-2009, 04:38 PM

Hate to pee in your cherrios but mine had the exact same symptoms. After I changed out my fuel filters and it made no difference, I had the egr cooler & oil cooler replaced and it solved all my problems. I tow 14,000#'s + regularly and mine pulls great. I believe the reason was that the oil temperature & coolant temperatures were going up (thus the fan kicking in alot) and the truck PCM was depowering via fuel restriction to regulate the temperature better & thus losing your horsepower.

I can now pull my tt, cattle trailer or hay trailer as fast or hard as my diesel reserves allow.

kraftchick · 08-20-2009, 09:03 AM

Brum...

Thanks for the input...that sounds very interesting! Just curious what the egr cooler and oil cooler replacement costs....ballpark figure? Also, does anyone know if there is a way to test this by unplugging any kind of sensors on these units to negate the signal it's sending to the PCM (or does no signal at all get interpreted as high temperature, and it would make the same adjustment)? Just curious.

Thanks again for the input!

Smiley1 · 08-20-2009, 10:28 AM

Check and clean your EGR valve. This simple, free fix has solved MANY issues. Changing the fuel filters is a good idea. Have a dealer search for codes and make sure the fuel pressure is where it shouldd be. The dealer can also check the temp difference between your EGR cooler and Oil cooler to see if there is an issue. If you have these replaced make sure you add a coolant filter to keep this issue coming up again.

Rog1010 · 08-20-2009, 11:30 AM

Kraft...I have a 03 X with 90k and just noticed the same symptoms with pulling my toy hauler. Increased temps and fan kicking on alot. Prior to this, it has towed great.

Smiley....How do you check and clean the EGR valve? Thanks

Rccarps2 · 08-20-2009, 12:03 PM

Cleaning The EGR Valve

lubbockguy1979 · 08-20-2009, 12:21 PM

If it is a 05 I would see if the 5yr 100k good... If not then delete the egr cooler and replace the oil cooler. I would make sure that it is diagnosed properly as a lot of people have had headgaskets replaced when it was egr or oil cooler and vise versa

kraftchick · 08-20-2009, 02:19 PM

Will start with checking the EGR valve to see if it needs cleaning...and did stop and pick up new fuel filter last night. Question: If I were experiencing oil temp increases due to an oil cooler failure or degradation, would the dash oil temp gauge show this, or are those things not that precise? I ask because I've never seen it rise above where it normally runs (well, from what I'm used to it being at...it's possible it's been running like this since I've bought the truck in 10/08...I haven't noticed a loss of power since I've owned it...just that it has always seemed to have a lack of power). Secondly, I notice a lot of folks out here have installed the seperate oil, coolant, transmission temp guages to monitor more precisely, and to monitor for differences between them. If this is more precise, might it be worth it to purchase/install for existing determination of issues as well as for future monitoring. Are they installable by an average handy person, or require an experienced mechanic?

lubbockguy1979 · 08-20-2009, 10:32 PM

The only things close to accurate on the instrument cluster are the spedo and the tach. All the other ones are questionable to me. And you oil temp vs you coolant temp should be with in 15-20 degrees

Texascadillac42 · 08-20-2009, 10:38 PM

Make sure you use only Motorcraft filters. Countless problems have been caused by using aftermarket oil and fuel filters.

Lazyl · 08-23-2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRUMFIJW

Hate to pee in your cherrios but mine had the exact same symptoms. After I changed out my fuel filters and it made no difference, I had the egr cooler & oil cooler replaced and it solved all my problems. I tow 14,000#'s + regularly and mine pulls great. I believe the reason was that the oil temperature & coolant temperatures were going up (thus the fan kicking in alot) and the truck PCM was depowering via fuel restriction to regulate the temperature better & thus losing your horsepower.

I can now pull my tt, cattle trailer or hay trailer as fast or hard as my diesel reserves allow.

My question for you: My 2004 has the same problems as mentioned on orignial post. This is all a pain for sure but what happens if you just put up with it and let the whinning continue? Is there damage that can happen? Mine seemed to start after three years old and the fuel changed. I lost power along with the whinning but when I used the cetene boost the whinning continued but the power hung in there. Per his question above, what was the cost to change out the systems? thanks

kraftchick · 08-23-2009, 11:03 PM

Update: went to AutoZone today and had them check the codes via the OBD II....nothing....not one code has been thrown. When I first had them hook up the reader, it wouldn't connect at all....like the OBD connector was dead. I checked the fuse box, and sure enough, that 20amp fuse was blown. Replaced it, then their reader connected.........yet, no codes at all. If oil cooler and/or EGR cooler were not functioning properly, and I had an abnormal rise in either oil temp or coolant temp.....could this cause the PCM to degrade power, yet produce no codes?

kraftchick · 08-23-2009, 11:05 PM

Forgot to mention....I did change out the fuel filters yesterday, and added nearly a gallon of coolant to the degas bottle to bring it above the min mark (cold of course). Truck drove the same today.....though I haven't tested it towing.

bismic · 08-24-2009, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraftchick

Forgot to mention....I did change out the fuel filters yesterday, and added nearly a gallon of coolant to the degas bottle to bring it above the min mark (cold of course). Truck drove the same today.....though I haven't tested it towing.

With that much coolant gone, you would notice a LOT of white residue around the degas bottle if it were head gaskets. The EGR cooler leak can cause "puking" out the degas bottle, but more common is the leakage into the intake through a failed EGR cooler. If the leakage is too great, you can hydrolock cylinders and cause MAJOR engine damage. Typically w/ an EGR cooler leak, you will see white smoke from the exhaust, but not always.

I believe BRUMFIJW hit the nail on the head. EGR cooler and Oil cooler replacement can be a few thousand dollars IIRC. Hopefully you are under the 5 yr / 100k mile warranty. The 5 yr part starts on the date of purchase. The dealership can print you out an OASIS report that shows the date of purchase and ALL the previous warranty work on the truck.

saycheessee · 08-24-2009, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRUMFIJW

Hate to pee in your cherrios but mine had the exact same symptoms. After I changed out my fuel filters and it made no difference, I had the egr cooler & oil cooler replaced and it solved all my problems. I tow 14,000#'s + regularly and mine pulls great. I believe the reason was that the oil temperature & coolant temperatures were going up (thus the fan kicking in alot) and the truck PCM was depowering via fuel restriction to regulate the temperature better & thus losing your horsepower.

I can now pull my tt, cattle trailer or hay trailer as fast or hard as my diesel reserves allow.

When the fan keep staying on with mine and loosing power, they replaced the heads and head gaskets on mine. I have heard that the Head Gaskets are a problem on alot of them. I would check with my dealer and see what they though.