6.0L Power Stroke Engine and DrivetrainDiscussion of the 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 2003-Up Super-Duties and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 6.0L Power Stroke engine.
IMHO, you would be better served to spend that money on diagnosis and repair rather than the tuner. The chances of the tuner doing what you want are pretty slim until you find out why the engine is defueling (at least, that is what I think is happening).
Did you check fuel pressure? If not, you need to do that. I would not be surprised to learn it is low (below 45psi at heavy throttle).
__________________ 2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03, AIC, MBRP turbo-back exhaust, Tuning by Tony Wildman (Total Diesel Performance), ARP studs & some "other" work done by River City Diesel, AFE PG7, Fumoto valve, B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges, Voyager brake controller, DIESELSITE Coolant filter, Timbrens, Rancho RSXs, Michelin XPS Traction's, a whole bunch of "bling", Connex 4300hp, JL Audio 275w amp w/ 12" sub, Alpine door and rear seat speakers.
Teamproper....I definitely can appreciate the opinion. I too would really really like to know what is causing this. Even if a tuner safely gives me what I need, in the back of my mind it will still be driving me crazy not know what the real issue is. I did pull out the secondary fuel filter, siphoned the bowl out and tested fuel delivery to the bowl at KOEO....it filled up in about 2 secs. So it appears delivery from the tank to the bowl is okay. I don't know how to test it further from there as I am guessing from that point to the injectors is the fuel pressure you are referring to. How does one go about testing that, and does one of the sensors monitor that? If there is a sensor, of course it could be bad and giving a false positive reading to a computer monitoring that parameter. But how would I test it or get it tested to gaurantee that is or is not the problem. Also...if fuel pressure were low, causing lack of power, I'm assuming (maybe incorrectly) that this would mean there simply isn't the volume of fuel being delivered to the cylinder that it needs....seems this would make great fuel mileage....however I get 12.5 average around town...and 9 towing on my last outing (flat land).
No sensor for fuel pressure, just a test port on the secondary fuel filter. I went to parker and had them make me up a hose with propper fitting and a gauge so i can see what psi I have at WOT. Cost me $50.00 and now i check it every so often to make sure filters are clean and pump is still putting out 50 psi at WOT.
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05 f350 CC LB King Ranch. 6.0 stock with torqushift and 3.73 gears. This thing is SLOW
Teamproper....I definitely can appreciate the opinion. I too would really really like to know what is causing this. Even if a tuner safely gives me what I need, in the back of my mind it will still be driving me crazy not know what the real issue is. I did pull out the secondary fuel filter, siphoned the bowl out and tested fuel delivery to the bowl at KOEO....it filled up in about 2 secs. So it appears delivery from the tank to the bowl is okay. I don't know how to test it further from there as I am guessing from that point to the injectors is the fuel pressure you are referring to. How does one go about testing that, and does one of the sensors monitor that? If there is a sensor, of course it could be bad and giving a false positive reading to a computer monitoring that parameter. But how would I test it or get it tested to gaurantee that is or is not the problem. Also...if fuel pressure were low, causing lack of power, I'm assuming (maybe incorrectly) that this would mean there simply isn't the volume of fuel being delivered to the cylinder that it needs....seems this would make great fuel mileage....however I get 12.5 average around town...and 9 towing on my last outing (flat land).
The fuel flow from the factory pump to the fuel bowl is not regulated, so even a weak pump could probably fill the fuel bowl pretty quick. However you are incorrect in presuming that low fuel pressure/volume would increase fuel mileage. It will have exactly the opposite affect.
As stated, there isn't a fuel pressure sensor on these engines. Shoulda been, since low fuel pressure kills injectors in a hurry. This is why I always recommend a fuel pressure gauge be installed on these trucks.
There is a test port on the fuel bowl, just to the left of the return line. A fuel pressure gauge can be hooked into the system there to test pressure but you need to have enough line to get the gauge to a place where you can see it when the engine is under a load. If your pressure drops below 45psi, your pump or your regulator is bad.
__________________ 2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03, AIC, MBRP turbo-back exhaust, Tuning by Tony Wildman (Total Diesel Performance), ARP studs & some "other" work done by River City Diesel, AFE PG7, Fumoto valve, B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges, Voyager brake controller, DIESELSITE Coolant filter, Timbrens, Rancho RSXs, Michelin XPS Traction's, a whole bunch of "bling", Connex 4300hp, JL Audio 275w amp w/ 12" sub, Alpine door and rear seat speakers.
I cannot believe this problem is still on going for you. (One thing as a side note, I really think that a Superchips tuner is a poor choice, the SCT tuner, with tunes from Innovative Diesel is the only way to go in 6.0 performance IMO)
But I do agree with teamroper, there is a serious underlying problem here that needs to be addressed first, before money is spent on upgrades to restore "stock" power. Fuel pressure is definitely a good thing to check. Having the ability to see what the fuel pressure is, when the truck is at WOT, with a load on it may answer some questions.
I have a few questions which may have already been answered in old posts...
How does the truck start after sitting over night?
With the truck in park, or neutral, and the pedal to the floor (briefly) will the truck come up to redline?
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99 F350 XLT 4x4, Crew Cab, 6spd, 19.5s, Cummins 12V powered, with a few mods, SBC DD clutch
I cannot believe this problem is still on going for you. (One thing as a side note, I really think that a Superchips tuner is a poor choice, the SCT tuner, with tunes from Innovative Diesel is the only way to go in 6.0 performance IMO)
But I do agree with teamroper, there is a serious underlying problem here that needs to be addressed first, before money is spent on upgrades to restore "stock" power. Fuel pressure is definitely a good thing to check. Having the ability to see what the fuel pressure is, when the truck is at WOT, with a load on it may answer some questions.
I have a few questions which may have already been answered in old posts...
How does the truck start after sitting over night?
With the truck in park, or neutral, and the pedal to the floor (briefly) will the truck come up to redline?
Texas...I completely agree with the need to figure out the root of the problem and resolve it...actually I think the last couple posts with the same opinion is starting to re-vamp my initial motivation to resolve this. I've just gotten completely weathered over the last month or two trying to figure this out with absolutely zero success.
As far as it starting after sitting over night....it starts just fine.
And yep, in park/neutral...I can rev it up to redline.
As far as not believing this problem is still ongoing....me neither, and it's driving me nuts!
Teamroper...I also meant to thank you for the input as well. The information you stated was very interesting...especially regarding the fuel mileage. One thing I should note though....I bought this truck in September of '08. It has been running exactly like it does now since then...I just didn't know I had a problem (no diesel experience prior to this truck) until I puchased and started pulling our camper. I never have experienced a loss of power...this is how it's ran since I've owned it. It just became apparent to me when I ended up buying only a 7500 lb camper...and on our first trip to the mountains. That's basically what started my exploration. When I tested pulling my camper with a buddies stock 06 F350....I was blown away at how easy that truck towed my camper....it literally was like the camper wasn't even there (even knowing there is a rear end gearing difference...the peformance his truck gave me was a lot more than just a gearing difference). Then when I drove another stock 05 F250 just on a test drive a few miles up the road...the experience was totally different than when driving mine. Anyway...since it's been performing like this since I've had it, and if the problem were a lack of fuel pressure, and a lack of fuel pressure ruins the injectors...would I be able to run it for a year (16K miles) just like it is, or would the injectors have been ruined long ago?
Tough to say what damage has been done to the injectors if the fuel pressure is indeed low. It would depend on how low.....etc. While the 6.0L is a complicated motor, it is still a motor. air and fuel in, exhaust out.... repeat. It has a few more complicated systems for getting that air and fuel in, but its still a motor nonetheless.
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99 F350 XLT 4x4, Crew Cab, 6spd, 19.5s, Cummins 12V powered, with a few mods, SBC DD clutch
If in fact it is a low fuel pressure issue, you probably will not be able to determine the extent of injector damage until the pressure issue is corrected. At that point, the injectors can be looked at to see how they are performing.
__________________ 2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03, AIC, MBRP turbo-back exhaust, Tuning by Tony Wildman (Total Diesel Performance), ARP studs & some "other" work done by River City Diesel, AFE PG7, Fumoto valve, B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges, Voyager brake controller, DIESELSITE Coolant filter, Timbrens, Rancho RSXs, Michelin XPS Traction's, a whole bunch of "bling", Connex 4300hp, JL Audio 275w amp w/ 12" sub, Alpine door and rear seat speakers.
subscribed.........want to see how this one turns out......almost identical situation. Thought the truck was great until I towed with it this weekend. Bought it hoping my TT towing experience would be improved, it is not. I don't think my lack of power is as bad as your experience, but everything you describe is my situation to a T. I'll be calling my servicing dealer monday morning for an appointment. Good luck and I'll repost if they are able to fix my issue. May be a few weeks.
Cover the basics BEFORE swapping parts or tunes. They will just confuse the root cause.
Basics:
Fuel Pressure: FORD spec is 50, International is 70. I modified mine to run 63 PSIG.
Vehicle Voltage: FICM needs minimum 10.5 > volts (Batteries/Aletrnator should keep it over 12 volts.
FICM Voltage Output: Minimum is 48.5 Volts.
Boost: I would be dissapointed if my 6.0 would only do 25 Boost.
Injecter Control Oill Pressure: Minimum 500 PSI at idle and easily goes to 3500> when ya punch it.
If you are going to own a diesel and not be at the mercy of dealers (parts swappers) invest in the AutoEnginuity "Ford Package". All BASICS will be covered except for fuel pressure (install a permanent gauge).
and............ I really believe that ALL DEALERS are not parts swappers and there are some great techs at Ford and several help us out on this site. I just wish the DEALERS Service Manager would give the 'good techs' the time they need to diagnose these beasts.
[/quote]Since I'll be boosting the power with an aftermarket product...should I also get some sort of EGT monitoring?[/quote]
You need lots of monitoring to properly own a diesel and be an educated owner LOL.
Minimum is:
Boost
EGT (ignore EGT = Ignore the Engine)
Oil Temp vs Engine Coolant Temp
Tranny Temp
* FUEL Pressure (Requires a gauge or a sensor with sending unit to the cab).
ALL of these plus many more can be done economically with an EDGE Insight MONITOR for less than the cost of most gauge setups.
Folks...thanks for all the replies. Though against recommendation, I did go ahead and purchase the SuperChips tuner. We tuned the truck with the "light tow" mode (less than 8000 lbs.), so as not to risk damaging anything. I did notice a more positive transmission response....shifting was more positive, quicker, etc....but the power addition was maybe 10% better. This was confirmed when towing again to the same campground we've been to the last three trips. Which was good to compare against since it was the same terrain, grade, etc......still only about a 10% improvement in power. On the highway I had a little peddle in reserve at highway speeds vs. having to keep it on the floor. Climbing the slight grade I was able to run about 10 mph. faster, but still topped out at 55-56 WOT....and again only on a slight grade. QUESTION: after all the testing, troubleshooting, etc....could this just simply be a worn out torque converter? Was chatting with someone and they really felt that it sounded like a bad or worn out torque converter. Would make a lot of sense with the terrible fuel mileage I get, and my constant complaint that it just simply feels that all the work the engine is doing just isn't getting tranferred to the pavement. I don't know much about torque converters....would it be possible for one to be worn out from heavy towing before I bought this truck, and then it not completely break down since I've had it for a year? Could it be worn out, causing my problems, yet still operate at enough of a level to keep the truck driveable for a year?
Anybody think this could be a torque converter problem?
The 5R110W transmission has an adaptive learning strategy, which makes adjustments in the shift duration, line pressures, etc... based on previous results. I do not recall you mentioning any of the symptoms usually associated with a bad or slipping transmission or TC. So no, I do not think this is related to the torque converter, nor do I think it is related to the transmission at all...
__________________ 2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03, AIC, MBRP turbo-back exhaust, Tuning by Tony Wildman (Total Diesel Performance), ARP studs & some "other" work done by River City Diesel, AFE PG7, Fumoto valve, B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges, Voyager brake controller, DIESELSITE Coolant filter, Timbrens, Rancho RSXs, Michelin XPS Traction's, a whole bunch of "bling", Connex 4300hp, JL Audio 275w amp w/ 12" sub, Alpine door and rear seat speakers.
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2003 Toreador Red/Arizona Beige CC, DRW, Lariat, FX4, 6.0 PSD, Torqshift, born early Feb. 03, AIC, MBRP turbo-back exhaust, Tuning by Tony Wildman (Total Diesel Performance), ARP studs & some "other" work done by River City Diesel, AFE PG7, Fumoto valve, B&W hitch, Di-Pricol gauges, Voyager brake controller, DIESELSITE Coolant filter, Timbrens, Rancho RSXs, Michelin XPS Traction's, a whole bunch of "bling", Connex 4300hp, JL Audio 275w amp w/ 12" sub, Alpine door and rear seat speakers. 
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